§ From and after the first day of January, nineteen hundred and thirteen, no sum of money collected by voluntary subscription and presented to any clergyman of the Church of England, or minister of any other denomination, shall be deemed to form part of the income of the recipient for the purposes of any enactments relating to Income Tax.
EARL of RONALDSHAYThere are very good reasons to justify me in moving this new Clause. It is customary for congregations to make certain money gifts to their ministers at Easter in the form of thank offerings. Up to 1904 no one thought of taxing these money gifts as part of the income of the clergyman or minister, but an attempt was then made to claim Income Tax on these free-will gifts. It went through the gamut of the Courts and sometimes the decision was in favour of the clergyman and sometimes it was in favour of the Inland Revenue. Finally in 1908 it was decided in favour of the Inland Revenue, and the law having thus been laid down, it became necessary that these men should pay Income Tax upon these gifts. I submit that that is unfair. These are free-will gifts on the part of the congregation, and are not part of the recipient's income in any sense. They vary in proportion to the popularity of the minister; and that being so it is surely unfair that they should be treated as a regular part of his income for the purpose of the Income Tax.
§ Mr. BOOTHOn a point of Order. I beg to draw your attention, Mr. Maclean, to the fact that in the margin of this new Clause it says: "Easter offerings to be exempt from Income Tax." In the Clause itself there is no reference to Easter; it only refers to "money collected by voluntary subscription and presented to any clergyman of the Church of England or minister of any other denomination." I submit that the title has no connection whatever with the Clause.
§ 3.0 A.M.
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEI really fail to see why ministers should have this part of income exempted from Income Tax. The Noble Lord says that it varies according to the popularity of the minister, but the income of any professional man varies according to his popularity, and why a minister should be placed in any different category I do not understand.
§ Mr. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAINI do not want to extend the discussion, but the line the Chancellor of the Exchequer has taken forces me to say one word. I think there is a real difference. This is in the nature of a free-will gift. It is not the contract between a parishioner and the minister or clergyman. It is not the promise of a professional fee or the clergyman's regular stipend, but it is much more in the nature of a free-will gift, and indeed it was very doubtful until the case was taken to the Courts for decision, whether it was taxable at all, and it required a decision of the Court of Appeal to settle that question.
§ Mr. BOOTHOne or two clergymen who have spoken to me about this matter utterly repudiate every effort of this kind made on their behalf. [CRIES OF "Name."]
§ I was discussing it only in the last few days, and they said they are quite prepared—I think I speak for the majority in this case—to pay all their debts, including their debt to the State.
§ Mr. JOYNSON-HICKSI do think the speech of the Chancellor of the Exchequer was not worthy of the case. It is really a bonâ fide claim which, in spite of the hon. Member for Pontefract (Mr. Booth), the clergymen and ministers of other denominations have been making for some time past that they should not have these free-will offerings taxed. The Chancellor of the Exchequer tried to ride off as if this were part of professional income. I venture to suggest that when he was in the active practice of the law he paid Income Tax on his professional fees, but if a collection were made among his clients as a free-will offering for himself I am perfectly certain he did not pay Income Tax upon it. I only hope my Noble Friend will go to a Division on this point.
§ Mr. PETOI want to ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer why a free-will gift to the clergy is charged as part of his income, whereas any free-will gift from one person to another is not so charged? I want to know why there is this invidious? distinction? If you give to your parish clergyman a five pound note or whatever it be out of gratitude or esteem, that is regarded as part of his income; but if you happen to give a sum to a friend who I happens to be in need, that is not part i of his income.
§ Question put, "That the Clause be read a second time."
§ The Committee divided: Ayes, 85; Noes, 153.
2879| Division No. 206.] | AYES. | [3.10 a.m. |
| Archer-Shee, Major Martin | Coates, Major Sir Edward Feetham | Hohler, Gerald Fitzroy |
| Ashley, Wilfrid W. | Craig, Norman (Kent, Thanet) | Hope, James Fitzalan (Sheffield) |
| Baird, John Lawrence | Dalrymple, Viscount | Jardine, Ernest (Somerset, East) |
| Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Denniss, E. R. B. | Kerry, Earl of |
| Barlow, Montague (Salford, South) | Dickson, Rt. Hon. C. S. | Kyffin-Taylor, G. |
| Barnston, Harry | Duke, Henry Edward | Larmor, Sir J. |
| Bathurst, Charles (Wilts, Wilton) | Eyres-Monsell, Bolton M. | Lewisham, Viscount |
| Beach, Hon. Michael Hugh Hicks | Falls, Bertram Godfray | Locker-Lampson, G. (Salisbury) |
| Benn, Arthur Shirley (Plymouth) | Gastrell, Major W. Houghton | Malcolm, Ian |
| Benn, Ian Hamilton (Greenwich) | Gibbs, George Abraham | Mills, Hon. Charles Thomas |
| Bennett-Goldney, Francis | Glazebrook, Captain Philip K. | Neville, Reginald J. N. |
| Bigland, Alfred | Gordon, John (Londonderry, South) | Newdegate, F. A. |
| Boles, Lieut.-Col. Dennis Fortescue | Grant, James Augustus | Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington) |
| Boyton, James | Greene, W. R. | Perkins, Walter Frank |
| Bridgeman, William Clive | Gretton, John | Peto, Basil Edward |
| Burn, Colonel C. R. | Guinness, Hon. W.E. (Bury S. Edmunds) | Pollock, Ernest Murray |
| Campion, W. R. | Hall, D. B. (Isle of Wight) | Pretyman, Ernest George |
| Cassel, Felix | Hall, Fred (Dulwich) | Pryce-Jones, Col. E. |
| Castlereagh, Viscount | Henderson, Major H. (Berks, Abingdon | Quilter, Sir William Eley C. |
| Cautley, Henry Strother | Hewins, William Albert Samuel | Rawson, Colonel Richard H. |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J. A. (Worc'r.) | Hickman, Colonel Thomas E. | Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall) |
| Chambers, James | Hill, Sir Clement L, (Shrewsbury) | Rutherford, Watson (L'rpool, W. Derby) |
| Clive, Captain Percy Archer | Hills, John Waller | Sanders, Robert A. |
| Sandys, G. J. | Touche, George Alexander | Wood, John (Stalybridge) |
| Stanier, Beville | Walrond, Hon. Lionel | Wright, Henry Fitzherbert |
| Starkey, John Ralph | Ward, A. S. (Herts, Watford) | Younger, Sir George |
| Stewart, Gershom | Wheler, Granvllle C. H. | |
| Swift, Rigby | White, Major G. D. (Lancs., Southport) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Earl of |
| Talbot, Lord Edmund | Willoughby, Major Hon. Claud | Ronaldshay and Mr. Joynson-Hicks. |
| Thynne, Lord Alexander | ||
| NOES. | ||
| Abraham, William (Dublin Harbour) | Hardie, J. Keir (Merthyr Tydvil) | O'Kelly, Edward P. (Wicklow, W.) |
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Harvey, W. E. (Derbyshire, N.E.) | O'Malley, William |
| Armitage, Robert | Havelock-Allan, Sir Henry | O'Neill, Dr. Charles (Armagh, S.) |
| Baker, Harold T. (Accrington) | Hayden, John Patrick | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. |
| Bentham, George Jackson | Hayward, Evan | O'Shee, James John |
| Black, Arthur W. | Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | O'Sullivan, Timothy |
| Boland, John Pius | Henry, Sir Charles | Outhwaite, R. L. |
| Booth, Frederick Handel | Higham, John Sharp | Parker, James (Halifax) |
| Bowerman, Charles W. | Hinds, John | Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek) |
| Boyle, Daniel (Mayo, North) | Hogge, James Myles | Phillips, John (Longford, S.) |
| Brace, William | Howard, Hon. Geoffrey | Pointer, Joseph |
| Brady, Patrick Joseph | Hudson, Walter | Power, Patrick Joseph |
| Brocklehurst, William B. | Hughes, Spencer Leigh | Price, C. E. (Edinburgh, Central) |
| Burke, E. Haviland- | Illingworth, Percy H. | Primrose, Hon. Nell James |
| Burns, Rt. Hon. John | Isaacs, Rt. Hon. Sir Rufus | Pringle, William M. R. |
| Byles, Sir William Pollard | Jones, Edgar R. (Merthyr Tydvil) | Raffan, Peter Wilson |
| Carr-Gomm, H. W. | Jones, Henry Haydn (Merioneth) | Rea, Rt. Hon. Russell (South Shields) |
| Clancy, John Joseph | Jowett, Frederick William | Rea, Walter Russell (Scarborough) |
| Clough, William | Joyce, Michael | Reddy, Michael |
| Clynes, John R. | Kellaway, Frederick George | Redmond, John E. (Waterford) |
| Collins, Stephen (Lambeth) | Kennedy, Vincent Paul | Redmond, Wiliam (Clare, E.) |
| Condon, Thomas Joseph | Kilbride, Denis | Richardson, Thomas (Whitehaven) |
| Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | Lambert, Richard (Wilts, Cricklade) | Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln) |
| Crooks, William | Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, West) | Roberts, George H. (Norwich) |
| Crumley, Patrick | Lewis, John Herbert | Robertson, John M. (Tyneside) |
| Cullinan, John | Lundon, Thomas | Roche, Augustine (Louth) |
| Davies, Ellis William (Eifion) | Lyell, Charles Henry | Rowlands, James |
| Davies, Timothy (Lincs., Louth) | Lynch, Arthur Alfred | Scanlan, Thomas |
| Dawes, James Arthur | Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester) | Scott, A. MacCallum (Glas., Bridgeton) |
| Denman, Hon. Richard Douglas | Macnamara, Rt. Hon. Dr. T. J | Seely, Col. Rt. Hon. J. E. B. |
| Devlin, Joseph | MacNeill, John G. S. (Donegal, South) | Sheehy, David |
| Dillon, John | Macpherson, James Ian | Shortt, Edward |
| Duffy, William J. | MacVeagh, Jeremiah | Simon, Sir John Allsebrook |
| Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness) | McGhee, Richard | Smith, Albert (Lancs, Clitheroe) |
| Elibank, Rt. Hon. Master of | McKenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald | Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.) |
| Esmonde, Dr. John (Tipperary, N.) | Markham, Sir Arthur Basil | Stanley, Albert (Staffs, N.W.) |
| Esmonde, Sir Thomas (Wexford, N.) | Marshall, Arthur Harold | Tennant, Harold John |
| Farrell, James Patrick | Mason, David M. (Coventry) | Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton) |
| Ffrench, Peter | Masterman, Rt. Hon. C. F. G. | Thorne, William (West Ham) |
| Field, William | Meehan, Francis E. (Leitrim, N.) | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Fitzgibbon, John | Mooney, John J. | Ure, Rt. Hon. Alexander |
| Flavin, Michael Joseph | Morison, Hector | Wadsworth, John |
| George, Rt. Hon. David Lloyd | Muldoon, John | Webb, H. |
| Gill, Alfred Henry | Munro, Robert | Wedgwood, Josiah C. |
| Greig, Colonel James William | Nannetti, Joseph P. | White, J. Dundas (Glas., Tradeston) |
| Guest, Hon. Frederick E. (Dorset, E.) | Needham, Christopher T. | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
| Gulland, John William | Nolan, Joseph | Williams, John (Glamorgan) |
| Hackett, John | O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) | Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton) |
| Hall, Frederick (Normanton) | O'Doherty, Philip | |
| Hancock, John George | O'Donnell, Thomas | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Mr. |
| Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose) | O'Dowd, John | Wedgwood Benn and Mr. W. Jones. |
| Harcourt, Rt. Hon. L. (Rossendale) | O'Grady, James |