§ Postponed Resolutions further considered.
§ Second Resolution:—
§ (9.0.) MR. CALDWELLsaid it was hopeless in present circumstances to expect a useful discussion of the items of which this large Vote was composed; but to mark his sense of the manner in which the business of Supply had been conducted he moved a reduction of the Vote by £1,000.
§
Amendment proposed—
To leave out '£16,066,000,' and insert '£16,065,000.'"—(Mr. Caldwell.)
§ Question proposed, "That £16,066,000 stand part of the Resolution."
MR. POWELL-WILLIAMS (Birmingham, S.)wished to say a few words on the general question involved in this very important Vote, especially to the supplies of food and forage for the Army. Before the noble Lord came into his present office these matters used to form the subject of burning inquiries by hon. Members opposite, and the hon. Member for the St. Patrick Division of Dublin was continually raising the question of the desirability of obtaining meat for His Majesty's forces from home sources instead of from over the water. Personally, he had many controversies with the hon. Member on the point, the contention put forward being that it was possible to get home meat quite as cheaply as foreign meat. He was advised in those days that it was quite impossible to exclude foreign meat, and that in many cases the source of supply could not be traced. Then there was the question of quality, and it was maintained—unsuccessfully as he thought—that home supplied meat was of very inferior quality to some of that which came from our Colonies and from South America. [Nationalist cries of "No."] 720 Of course, he did not expect hon. Members to agree with that, but still the result of inquiries was undoubtedly that much of the meat produced in Ireland and supplied to the troops was not of the equal quality to that obtained from colonial sources.
§ MR. JOHN CAMPBELL (Armagh, S.)Is the right hon. Gentleman in order in discussing the Vote generally, when an Amendment has been moved with respect of a particular subject?
§ *MR. SPEAKERruled that the right hon. Gentleman was in order.
MR. POWELL-WILLIAMSsaid he would be glad to know from his noble friend whether there had been any change in the policy of the War Office since the time those points were raised. He was somewhat disappointed to notice that the eagerness formerly displayed in the discussion of this subject had not been kept up. Then the Vote included a sum for straw. At one time he thought it undesirable that the straw which was supplied to the troops in very large quantities should be obtained from foreign sources, and he held that some preference might reasonably be given to English producers. Indeed, he was satisfied by the inquiries he had made that such a system could have been adopted without putting any extra charge on the taxpayers of the country. He now asked had any step been found practicable in that direction. Had the Department reduced the purchases on the continent and increased those in this country? The Vote contained an item of £1,200,000 for the concentration camps. That was a very heavy charge, and he would like to know whether the recipients of the benefits conferred had expressed themselves grateful to this country for what had been done for them in the untoward circumstances in which they had been situated.
§ *MR. SPEAKEROrder, order!
MR. POWELL-WILLIAMSsaid it had been implied by some hon. Members opposite that this £1,200,000 had been 721 spent on "methods of barbarism," but as a matter of fact it had been expended in keeping alive women, children, and old men, who, without the shelter of these camps, must have inevitably perished. A large portion of the money had been spent on the education of those who were gathered into the camps.
§ MR. CALDWELLWhat has that to do with the War Office Vote?
§ *MR. SPEAKERThe right hon. Gentleman is not entitled to go into the policy of establishing the concentration camps, or the mode in which the persons there were concentrated.
MR. POWELL-WILLIAMSsaid he thought he was entitled to ask what portion of the expenditure had been incurred in education, and how much on recreation; also to what extent it had been spent on medical comforts and food.
§ *COLONEL BLUNDELL (Lancashire, Ince)said he wished—
§ *MR. SPEAKEROrder, order! I must ask hon. Members sitting in the shade on the back Bench to be more orderly, and not to interrupt the hon. Member who may be in possession with disorderly observations.
§ MR. JOHN CAMPBELLIf that is addressed to me, Sir, I would point out it is the first observation I have made since I raised a point of order. It is, too, the first time I have heard it stated to be disorderly to ask an hon. Member to speak out.
§ *MR. SPEAKERI was referring to several observations made at different times from that quarter by Members whom I could not identify. There are two ways—a polite and an impolite way—of asking an hon. Member to speak louder.
§ MR. JOHN CAMPBELLI have made no observations except those to which I have referred.
§ *COLONEL BLUNDELLsaid he wished to know whether the hay that was served out in the late war was British hay, and 722 how it succeeded, and, whether, as in former wars, horses, when they were doing little work, were put upon a reduced amount of forage with a view to its being increased when they were doing heavier work. With regard to the purchase of forage, he thought the Government should be very careful to give our own people a fair chance. He did not mean to say that the War Office should pay more than the market price, but if they could come approximately to the market price it was for the benefit of this country that our farmers should be dealt with, so that they may sympathise with the soldiers, who ought to be exercised over their farms.
§ THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY TO THE WAR OFFICE (Lord STANLEY,) Lancashire, Westhoughtonsaid the troops were being fed as far as possible on home-fed and home-killed meat. He had had several consultations with the hon. Member for the St. Patrick Division of Dublin, and had so rearranged the contract as to secure that the meat should be both home fed and home-killed, so that no question should arise of foreign meat being supplied as home produce. He had not got in the returns showing how the change had worked, but in one ease he was bound to admit that the, result had been by no means satisfactory, as the General Officer reported that the men infinitely preferred the Australian to the home-fed meat now supplied there. During the war as much hay as could be got from our own country was obtained. But the demand was so great that it had to be obtained from all quarters, and the best bay then got was from South America. A very good lot of hay was also got from Australia. Although it was compressed it lost nothing in value by the pressure, and an enormous advantage was gained in facility of transportation. The question of the concentration camps raised issues of policy which it was not for him to deal with on the Report of this Vote. The War Office carried on the expense of the concentration camps, leaving for future adjustment with the Colonial Office the distribution of responsibility for payment. He could not say how long they would last. They were being used at this moment not only for sheltering those who had been there during the 723 war, and had not yet been removed, but for the reception of returning prisoners while they were waiting to be drafted off as their homes were got ready. He hoped they would get some slight return
§ for the outlay by the sale of the buildings which had been erected.
§ (9.23.) Question put.
§ The House divided:—Ayes, 121; Noes, 71. (Division List No 371.)
725| AYES. | ||
| Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir Alex. F. | Godson, Sir Augustus Frederick | Purvis, Robert |
| Agg-Gardner, James Tynte | Gordon, J. (Londonderry, S.) | Randles, John S. |
| Allhusen, Augustus H 'nry Eden | Gordon, Maj. Evans-(T'rH'ml'ts | Rasch, Major Frederic Carne |
| Arnold-Foster, Hugh O. | Goulding, Edward Alfred | Reid, James (Greenock) |
| Arrol, Sir William | Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury | Remnant, James Farquharson |
| Bain, Colonel James Robert | Hanbury, Rt. Hn. Robert Wm. | Renshaw, Charles Bine |
| Balfour, Rt HnGerald W.(Leeds | Harris, Frederick Leverton | Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson |
| Bhowoaggree, Sir M. M. | Haslett, Sir James Horner | Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) |
| Bigwood, James | Hatch, Ernest Frederick Geo. | Rolleston, Sir John F. L. |
| Bill, Charles | Hermon-Hodge, Sir Robert T. | Ropner, Colonel Robert |
| Blundell, Colonel Henry | HigginboUom, S W. | Round, Rt. Hon. James |
| Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John | Hobhouse, Henry (Somerset, E. | Rutherford, John |
| Brotherton, Edward Allen | Hope, J. F. (Sheffield, Brightside | Samvel, Harry S. (Limehouse) |
| Bull, William James | Houston, Robert Paterson | Shaw-Stewart, H. M. (Renfrew |
| Billiard, Sir Harry | Hozier, Hon. James Henry Cecil | Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East) |
| Butcher, John George | Jeffreys, Rt. Hn. Arthur Fred. | Smith. HC (North'mb. Tyneside |
| Cautley, Henry Strother | Johnstone. Heywood (Sussex) | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh, | Kimber, Henry | Spear, John Ward |
| Chamberlain, J. Austen (Wore'r | Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) | Stanley, Hon. Arthur (Ormskirk |
| Charrington, Spencer | Lawson, John Grant | Stanley, Lord (Lanes.) |
| Coghill, Douglas Harry | Lee, Arthur H. (Hants., Fareh'm | Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M. |
| Cohen, Benjamin Louis | Lees, Sir Elliott (Brkenhead) | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
| Colomb, Sir John Charles Ready | Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage | Stroyan, John |
| Cook, Sir Frederick Lucas | Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie | Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M. |
| Cox, Irwin Edward Bainbridge | Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine | Valentia, Viscount |
| Cranborne, Lord | Lowe, Francis William | Warde, Colonel C. E. |
| Cripps, Charles Alfred | Lyttelton, Hon. Alfred | Warr, Augustus Frederick |
| Dalkeith, Earl of | Macartney, Rt Hn. W. G. Ellison | Webb, Colonel William George |
| Dewar, Sir T. R. (Tower Hamlets | Macdona, John Cumming | Welby, Lt-Col A.C.E. (Taunton |
| Dickson, Charles Scott | M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire | Whiteley, H. (Ashton and Lyne |
| Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- | Maxwell, W. J. H. (Dumfriessh. | Williams, Rt Hn J. Powell-(Birm |
| Duke, Henry Edward | Milvain, Thomas | Willox, Sir John Archibald |
| Dyke, Rt. Hon. Sir William Hart | Morgan, David J.(Walthamst'w | Wilson, John (Glasgow) |
| Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward | Morton, Arthur H. A. Deptford | Wilson-Todd, Wm. H. (Yorks |
| Finch, George H. | Murray. Rt Hn A. Graham (Bute | Wylie, Alexander |
| Firbank, Sir-Joseph Thomas | Nicol, Donald Ninian | Wyndham, Rt. Hon. (George |
| Fisher, William Hayes | Palmer, Walter (Salisbury) | Wyndham-Quin, Major W. H. |
| Fison, Frederick William | Pierpoint, Robert | |
| Flannery, Sir Fortescue | Platt-Higgins, Frederick | |
| Flower, Ernest | Plummer, Walter R. | TELLERS FOR THE AYES— |
| Foster, Philip S.(Warwick, SW. | Pretyman, Ernest George | Sir William Walrond and |
| Gardner, Ernest | Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward | Mr. Anstruther. |
| NOES. | ||
| Abraham, William (Rhondda) | Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh. | Lundon, W. |
| Atherley-Joaes, L. | Dilke, Kt. Hon. Sir Charles | MacNeill, John Gordon Swift |
| Bell, Richard | Dillon, John | M'Govern, T. |
| Bolton, Thomas Dolling | Donelan, Captain A. | Mansfield, Horace Rendall |
| Brigg, John | Doogan, P. C. | Murnaghan, George |
| Broadhurst. Henry | Farreil, James Patrick | Murphy, John |
| Burns, John | Flavin, Michael Joseph | Nannetti, Joseph P. |
| Cameron. Robert | Flynn, James Christopher | Nolan, Col. John P. (Galway. N. |
| Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) | Gilhooly, James | Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) |
| Channing, Francis Allston | Harden, John Patrick | O'Brien, Kendal (Tipp'r'ry Mid |
| Crean, Eugene | Horniman, Frederick John | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) |
| Cremer, William Randal | Joicey, Sir James | O'Donnell, John (Mayo, S.) |
| Cullinan, J. | Jones, William (Carnarvonsh.) | O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.) |
| Dalziel, James Henry | Kearley, Hudson E. | O'Kelly, James (Roscommon, N. |
| Davies, Alfred (Carmarthen) | Leamy, Edmund | O'Malley, William |
| Duvies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan | Levy, Maurice | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. |
| Delany, William | Lewis, John Herbert | Power, Patrick Joseph |
| Rea, Russell | Shipman, Dr. John G. | Weir, James Galloway |
| Redmond, John E. (Waterford | Strachey. Sir Edward | White, Luke (York, E.R.) |
| Rickett, J. Compton | Sullivan, Donal | Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R. |
| Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) | Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr | Wilson, John (Durham, Mid.) |
| Robson, William Snowdon | Tully, Jasper | |
| Roche, John | Walton, Joseph (Barnsley) | TELLERS FOR THE NOES— |
| Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel) | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. | Mr. Caldwell and Mr. J. H. |
| Shechan, Daniel Daniel | Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan | Whitley. |
§ Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolution."
§ MR. SWIFT MACNEILL (Donegal, S.)said he deprecated any wish to speak against time, but there was one item of £16,000,000 to which he wished to call attention. In Committee he had stated that 1,500 horses were brought into Stellinbosch, and fed only on chaff and deliberately starved. He had not then the letter to which he referred, and he now wished to justify what he then said with reference to only one of the thousands of scandals which had taken place during the war, by reading the letter to the House. [The hon. Member read the letter.] These horses which were bought from the farmers, not for the purpose of the war, were deliberately starved, and we had to pay to the tune of £16,000,000 to these remount gentlemen, who certainly were not fed on the chaff of these contracts. No effort of the War Office to conceal this scandal would prosper. He had stated it on the floor of the House, and the Government would not venture to contradict it. He believed every word of the letter was true, and if he had a chance on the Second or Third Reading of the Appropriation Bill he would favour the House with some further information on the subject. Again and again he had heard from friends at the front of the horrible cruelties practised out there, and Lord Kitchener must have known of this matter. This was cruelty and simply torture to dumb animals. The right hon. Gentleman opposite laughed when he spoke about these horses being ted on chaff,
§ but chaff was as bad a thing to feed horses on as thistles would be bad as food for gentlemen who, of course, were, not in this House. If the right hon. Gentleman knew nothing about this, transaction, then he had been kept in the dark by his officials, whom he-ought to dismiss. If the Secretary of State for War did not make inquiries into this matter, then he would be grossly neglecting his duty, and so far from earning £5,000 a year he would not be, worth £1 a week.
§ THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY TO THE WAR OFFICE (Lord STANLEY,) Lancashire, Westhoughtonsaid that the hon. Member had commenced by saying that he was going to make a three minutes speech, but his remarks had expanded themselves into a ten minutes speech. The hon. Gentleman had made the wildest possible accusation without giving his authority. He thought that in this case the hon. Member was right in not trying to do so. This information had only been confided to the hon. Member, and nobody else had heard anything else about it. This was one of the numerous mare's nests which the hon. Gentleman was so delighted to find. He would briefly answer the hon. Member in three sentences. In the first place, the War Office were making inquiries; in the second place, glanders did not come from chaff; and in the third place, when glanders existed, the horses ought to be shot.
§ (9.43.) Question put.
§ The House divided: — Ayes, 177' Noes, 70. (Division List No. 372).
727| AYES | ||
| Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir Alex. F. | Balcarres, Lord | Bolton, Thomas Dolling |
| Agg-Gardner, James Tynte | Balfour. Rt Hn Gerald W. (Leeds | Brigg, John |
| Allhusen, August's Henry Eden | Balfour, Kenneth R. (Christch. | Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John |
| Arnold-Forster, Hugh O. | Banbury, Frederick George | Brotherton, Edward Allen |
| Arrol, Sir William | Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. | Brown, George M. (Edinburgh) |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Bigwood, James | Bull, William James |
| Bagot, Capt. Josceline FitzRoy | Bill, Charles | Bullard, Sir Harry |
| Bain, Colonel James Robert | Blundell, Colonel Henry | Butcher, John George |
| Caldwell, James | Hermon-Hodge, Sir Robert T. | Rasch, Major Frederic Carne |
| Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. | Higginbottom, S. W. | Reid, James (Greenock) |
| Causton, Richard Knight | Hobhouse, Henry (Somerset, E.) | Remnant, James Farquharson |
| Cautley, Henry Strother | Holland, Sir William Henry | Renshaw, Charles Bine |
| Cavendish, V.C.W. (Derbysh.) | Hope. J.F. (Sheffield, Brightside | Rickett, J. Compton |
| Chamberlain, J. Austen (Worc'r | Houston, Robert Paterson | Ritchie, Rt Hon Chas. Thomson |
| Charrington, Spencer | Howard, J.(Midd., Tottenbam) | Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) |
| Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. | Hozier, Hon James Henry Cecil | Robson, William Snowdon |
| Coghill, Douglas Harry | Jeffreys, Rt. Hon. Arthur Fred. | Rolleston, Sir John F. L. |
| Cohen, Benjamin Louis | Jossel, Captain Herbert Merton | Ropner, Colonel Robert |
| Colomb, Sir John Charles Ready | Johnstone, Heywood (Sussex) | Round, Rt. Hon. James |
| Cook, Sir Frederick Lucas | Joicey, Sir James | Rutherford, John |
| Cox, Irwin Edward Bainbridge | Jones, William (Carnarvonshire | Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford- |
| Craig, Robert Hunter | Kearley, Hudson E. | Samuel, Harry S. (Limehouse) |
| Cranborne, Lord | Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T. (Denbigh) | Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel) |
| Cripps, Charles Alfred | Kimber, Henry | Shaw-Stewart, M. H. (Renfrew |
| Cross, Herb. Shepherd (Bolton) | Knowles, Lees | Simeon, Sir Barrington |
| Dalkeith, Earl of | Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) | Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East) |
| Dalziel, James Henry | Lawson, John Grant | Smith, HC.(North'mb. Tvn'side |
| Davies, M. Vaughan- (Cardigan) | Lee, Arthur H. (Hants, Fareham | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Dewar, Sir T. R. (Tower Hamlets | Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead) | Spear, John Ward |
| Dickson, Charles Scott | Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage | Stanley, Lord (Lanes.) |
| Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie | Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M. |
| Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers | Llewellyn, Evan Henry | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
| Duke, Henry Edward | Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R. | Strachey, Sir Edward |
| Durning-Lawrence, Sir Edwin | Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine | Stroyan, John |
| Faber, Edmund B. (Hants, W.) | Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Bristol, S) | Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier |
| Faber, George Denison (York) | Lonsdale, John Brownlee | Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M. |
| Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward | Lowe, Francis William | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Ferguson, R. C. Munro (Le'th) | Lowther, Rt. Hon. James (Kent) | Tritton, Charles Ernest |
| Finch, George H. | Lyttelton, Hon. Alfred | Valentia, Viscount |
| Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne | Macartney, Rt Hn. W. G. Ellison | Wallace, Robert |
| Firbank, Sir Joseph Thomas | Macdona, John Cumming | Warde, Colonel C. E. |
| Fisher, William Hayes | M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire) | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. |
| Fison, Frederick William | Manners, Lord Cecil | Warr, Augustus Frederick |
| Flannery, Sir Fortescue | Maxwell, WJH (Dumfriesshire | Webb, Colonel William George |
| Flower, Ernest | Melville, Beresford Valentine | Welby, Lt-Col. ACE. (Taunton |
| Foster, Philip S (Warwick, S. W. | Milvain, Thomas | Wharton, Rt. Hon. John Lloyd |
| Galloway, William Johnson | Morgan, David J (Walthamst'w | Whiteley, H (Ashton und Lyne |
| Gardner, Ernest | Morrell, George Herbert | Williams, Rt Hn J Powel-(Birm |
| Godson, Sir Augustus Frederick | Morton, Arthur H. A. (Deptford | Willox, Sir John Archibald |
| Gordon, J. (Londonderry, South | Murray, Rt Hn A Graham (Bute | Wilson, John (Glasgow) |
| Gordon, Maj Evans (T'rH'mlets | Nicol, Donald Ninian | Wilson-Todd, Wm. H. (Yorks. |
| Gore, Hn G.R.C. Ormsby-(Salop | Palmer, Walter (Salisbury) | Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R. (Bath) |
| Goulding, Edward Alfred | Pearson, Sir Weetman D. | Wylie, Alexander |
| Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury) | Peel, Hn. Wm. Robt. Wellesley | Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George |
| Hambro, Charles Eric | Pierpoint, Robert | Wyndham-Quin, Major W. H. |
| Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert Wm. | Platt-Higgins, Frederick | |
| Harmsworth, R. Leicester | Plummer, Walter R. | |
| Harris, Frederick Leverton | Pretyman, Ernest George | TELLERS FOR THE AYES— |
| Haslett, Sir James Horner | Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward | Sir William Walrond and |
| Hatch, Ernest Frederick Geo. | Purvis, Robert | Mr. Anstruther. |
| Heath, Arthur Howard (Hanley | Randles, John S. | |
| NOES. | ||
| Abraham, William (Rhondda) | Flavin, Michael Joseph | Murphy, John |
| Atherley-Jones, L. | Flynn, James Christopher | Nannetti, Joseph P. |
| Bayley, Thomas (Derbyshire) | Gilhooly, James | Nolan, Col. John P. (Galway, N. |
| Broadhurst, Henry | Hayden, John Patrick | Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) |
| Burns, John | Horniman, Frederick John | O'Brien, Keudal (Tipperary Mid |
| Cameron, Robert | Jones, David Brynmor (Swansea | O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W. |
| Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) | Law, Hugh Alex. (Donegal, W.) | O'Donnell, John (Mayo, S.) |
| Carew, James Laurence | Leamy, Edmund | O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.) |
| Cawley, Frederick | Leigh, Sir Joseph | O'Kelly, James (Roscommon, N |
| Charming, Francis Allston | Levy, Maurice | O'Malley, William |
| Crean, Eugene | Lewis, John Herbert | O'Shauyhnessy, P. J. |
| Cremer, William Randal | Lough, Thomas | Power, Patrick Joseph |
| Cullinan, J. | Lundon, W. | Rea, Russell |
| Davies, Alfred (Carmarthen) | MacNeill, John Gordon Swift | Redmond, John E. (Waterford) |
| Delany, William | M'Govern, T. | Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) |
| Dewar, John A. (Inveruess-sh. | M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North) | Roche, John |
| Dillon, John | M'Laren, Sir Charles Benjamin | Sheehan, Daniel Daniel |
| Doogan, P. C. | Mansfield, Horace Rendall | Shipman, Dr. John G. |
| Farrell, James Patrick | Murnaghan, George | Sullivan, Donal |
| Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr | Weir, James Galloway | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Thomas, JA (Glamorgan, Gower | White, Luke (York, E. R.) | |
| Thomson, F. W. (York, W. R.) | Whiteley, George (York, W. R. | |
| Tully, Jasper | Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) | TELLERS FOR THE NOES— |
| Walton, Joseph (Bamsley) | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer | Captain Donelan and Mr. |
| Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan | Wilson, John (Durham, Mid.) | Patrick O'Brien. |
§ Third Resolution:—
§ Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolution."
§ *SIR CHARLES DILKE (Gloucestershire, Forest of Dean)asked the Financial Secretary to the War Office if he could inform the House of any arrangements the Government had made with a view to keeping large stores of different kinds for use in the event of the mobilisation of the Army.
§ COLONEL WELBY (Taunton)said it was most important that there should be large supplies of stores, not only for the skeleton battalions at home, but for the whole of the Reserves which had to be called out in time of war. He would also like to emphasize what was said last night with regard to the underclothing and the different kinds of wear required by the soldiers. He knew from his own experience that there was an enormous amount of ill-feeling in the Army at the contant charges which were brought against the men's pockets for absolutely necessary wear. This was really one of those questions which made the soldier very uncomfortable.
§ LORD STANLEYsaid this question of a reserve of supplies was a most difficult
§ one, and one which it was impossible to answer for the reason that they had been shipping out to South Africa, as fast as ever they could, right up to the conclusion of the war, vast supplies of stores of clothing of all sorts and kinds. That clothing had been issued to a certain extent in South Africa; but, at the same time, they believed there must remain over a very large supply, which would come back to form part of their reserve. They were not stopping the issue and manufacture of clothing, so that they might be perfectly certain that the reserve was not incomplete when they got back to normal times. There was one thing that rather militated against the reserve being made up, and that was the fact that they had changed the whole pattern.
§ It being Ten of the clock, Mr. SPEAKER, in pursuance of the Order of the House of the 28th April, put forthwith the Question necessary to dispose of the Resolution then under consideration.
§ (10.0.) Question put accordingly, "That this House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolution."
§ The House divided:—Ayes, 205; Noes, 95. (Division List No. 373.)
731| AYES. | ||
| Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir Alex. F. | Brotherton, Edward Allen | Cranborne, Lord |
| Agg-Gardner, James Tynte | Brown. George M. (Edinburgh) | Cripps, Charles Alfred |
| Allhusen, Augustus Hy. Eden | Bull. William James | Cross, Herb, Shepherd (Bolton) |
| Arnold-Forster, Hugh O. | Bullard, Sir Harry | Dalkeith, Earl of |
| Arrol, Sir William | Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. | Davies. M. Vaughan-(Cardigan |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Causton. Richard Knight | Dewar, Sir T. R. (Tower Hamlets |
| Bagot, Capt. Josceline FitzRoy | Cautley, Henry Strother | Dickson, Charles Scott |
| Bain, Colonel James Robert | Cavendish, V.C.W. (Derbyshire | Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. |
| Balcarres, Lord | Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- |
| Balfour, Rt Hn Gerald W. (Leeds | Chamberlain, J. Austen (Worc'r | Duke, Henry Edward |
| Balfour, Kenneth R. (Christch. | Channing, Francis Allston | Durning-Lawrence, Sir Edwin |
| Banbury, Frederick George | Charrington, Spencer | Dyke, Rt. Hn. Sir William Hart |
| Beach, Rt Hn Sir Michael Hicks- | Clive, Capt. Percy A. | Faber, Edmund B. (Hants, W.) |
| Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. | Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. | Faber, George Denison (York) |
| Bigwood, James | Coghill, Douglas Harry | Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward |
| Bill, Charles | Cohen. Benjamin Louis | Ferguson, R. C. Mnnro (Leith) |
| Blundell, Colonel Henry | Colomb, Sir John Charles Ready | Finch, George H. |
| Bolton, Thomas Dolling | Cook, Sir Frederick Lucas | Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne |
| Bond, Edward | Cox, Irwin Edward Bainbridge | Firbank, Sir Joseph Thomas |
| Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John | Craig, Robert Hunter | Fisher, William Hayes |
| Fison, Frederick William | Llewellyn, Evan Henry | Rolleston, Sir John F. L. |
| FitzGerald, Sir Robert Penrose- | Lock wood, Lt.-Col. A. R. | Ropner, Colonel Robert |
| Flower, Ernest | Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine | Round, Rt. Hon. James |
| Foster, Philip S.(Warwick, S. W. | Long, Col. Charles W. (Evesham | Rutherford, John |
| Galloway, William Johnson | Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Bristol, S. | Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford- |
| Gardner, Ernest | Lonsdale, John Brownlee | Samuel, Harry S. (Limehouse) |
| Gibbs, Hn A.G.H. (City of Lond. | Lough, Thomas | Seely, Charles Hilton (Lincoln) |
| Godson, Sir Augustus Frederick | Lowe, Francis William | Seely, Maj J.E.B. (Isel of Wight |
| Gordon, J. (Londonderry, South | Lowther, C. (Comb., Eskdale) | Shaw-Stewart, M. H. (Renfrew |
| Gordon, Maj Evans-(T'rH'mlets | Lowther, Rt. Hn. Jame-(Kent) | Simeon, Sir Barrington |
| Gore, Hn G. R. C. Ormsby-(Salop | Macartney, Rt Hn W.G. Ellison | Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East |
| Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir John Eldon | Macdona, John Cumming | Smith, H. C (N'rth'mb. Tyneside |
| Goulding, Edward Alfred | Maconochie, A. W. | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury) | M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) | Spear, John Ward |
| Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs.) | M'Killop, James(Stirlingshire) | Stanley, Hn. Arthur (Ormskirk |
| Guest. Hon. Ivor Churchill | M'Laren, Sir Charles Benjamin | Stanley, Edward Jas. (Somerset |
| Halsey, Rt. Hon. Thomas F. | Malcolm, Ian | Stanley, Lord (Lanes.) |
| Hambro, Charles Eric | Manners, Lord Cecil | Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M. |
| Hamilton, Rt Hn Lord G (Midd'x | Maxwell, W. J. H. (Dnmfr'sshire | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
| Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert Wm. | Melville, Beresford Valentine | Strachey, Sir Edward |
| Harris, Frederick Leverton | Milvain, Thomas | Stroyan, John |
| Haslett, Sir James Horner | Molesworth, Sir Lewis | Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier |
| Hatch, Ernest Frederick Geo. | Montagu, G. (Huntingdon) | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Hay, Hon. Claude George | Montagu, Hon. J Scott (Hants | Tollemache, Henry James |
| Heath, Arthur Howard (Hanley | Moon, Edward Robert Pacy | Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M. |
| Hermon-Hodge, Sir Robert T. | Morgan, David J (Walthamst'w | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Higginbottom, S. W. | Morrell, George Herbert | Tritton, Charles Ernest |
| Hobhouse, Henry (Somerset, E.) | Morton, Arthur H A. (Deptford) | Valentia, Viscount |
| Holland, Sir William Henry | Murray Rt Hn. A. Grah'm (Bute | Warde, Colonel C. E. |
| Hope, J.F. (Sheffield, Brightside | Murray, Col. Wyudham (Bath) | Warr, Augustus Fredercik |
| Hoult, Joseph | Nicholson, William Graham | Webb, Colonel William George |
| Houston, Robert Paterson | Nicol, Donald Ninian | Welby, Lt- Col. A.C. E (Taunton |
| Howard, J. (Midd., Tottenham) | O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torresn | Wharton, Rt. Hon. John Lloyd |
| Hozier, Hon. James Henry Cecil | Palmer, Walter (Salisbury) | Whiteley, H (Ashton und. Lyne |
| Jeffreys, Rt. Hon. Arthur Fred. | Pearson, Sir Weetman D. | Whitmore, Charles Algernon |
| Jessel, Captain Herbert, Merton | Peel, Hn. Wm Robert Wellesley | Williams, Rt Hn J Powell (Birm. |
| Johnstone, Heywood (Sussex) | Pierpoint, Robert | Willox, Sir John Archibald |
| Jones, William (Carnarvonshire | Platt-Higgins, Frederick | Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E.R.) |
| Kearley, Hudson E. | Plammer, Walter R. | Wilson, John (Glasgow) |
| Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T. (Denbigh) | Pretyman, Ernest George | Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh., N. |
| Kimber, Henry | Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward | Wilson-Todd, Wm. H. (Yorks.) |
| Knowles, Lees | Purvis, Robert | Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E.R. (Bath) |
| Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm. | Randles, John S. | Wylie, Alexander |
| Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) | Raseh, Major Frederie Caine | Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George |
| Lawson, John Grant | Reid, James (Gresnock) | Wyndham-Quin, Major W. H. |
| Lee, Arthur H. (Hants, Fareham | Remnant, James Farquharson | |
| Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead) | Renshaw, Charles Bine | |
| Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage | Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson | TELLERS FOR THE AYES— |
| Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie | Roberts, Samuel (Sheffield) | Sir William Walrond and |
| Lewis, John Herbert | Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) | Mr. Anstruther. |
| NOES. | ||
| Abraham, William (Cork, N.E.) | Doogan, P. C. | MacDonnell, Dr. Mark A. |
| Abraham, William (Rhondda) | Dunn. Sir William | MacNeill, John Gordon Swift |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Edwards, Frank | M'Govern, T. |
| Atherley-Jones, L. | Farrell, James Patrick | M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North) |
| Bayley, Thomas (Derbyshire) | Flavin, Michael Joseph | Mansiield, Horace Rendall |
| Bell, Richard | Flynn, James Christopher | Mooney, John J. |
| Brigg, John | Gilhooly, James | Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen) |
| Broadhurst, Henry | Grant, Corrie | Moulton, John Fletcher |
| Burns, John | Harmsworth, R. Leicester | Murnaghan, George |
| Caldwell. James | Hayden, John Patrick | Murphy, John |
| Cameron, Robert | Hayne, Rt. Hon. Charles Seale- | Nannetti, Joseph P. |
| Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) | Horniman, Frederick John | Nolan, Col. John P.(Galway, N. |
| Carew, James Laurence | Humphreys-Owen, Arthur C. | Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) |
| Cawley, Frederick | Jacoby, James Alfred | Norton, Capt. Cecil William |
| Crean, Eugene | Jameson, Major J. Eustace | O'Brien, Kendal (Tipperary Mid |
| Cremer, William Randal | Joicey. Sir James | O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W.) |
| Cullinan, J. | Jones, David Brynmor (Swansea | O'Donnell, John (Mayo, S.) |
| Dalziel, James Henry | Law, Hugh Alex. (Donegal, W. | O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.) |
| Davies, Alfred (Carmarthen) | Leamy, Edmund | O'Kelly, James (Roscommon, N. |
| Delany, William | Leigh, Sir Joseph | O'Malley, William |
| Dewar, John A. (lnverness-sh. | Levy, Maurice | O'Mara, James |
| Dillon, John | Lundon, W. | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. |
| Power, Patrick Joseph | Sullivan, Donal | Whiteley, George (York, W.R.) |
| Rea, Russell | Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr | Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) |
| Redmond, John E. (Waterford) | Thomas, JA (Glamorgan Gower | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer |
| Rickett, J. Compton | Thomson, F. W. (York, W. R.) | Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.) |
| Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) | Tally, Jasper | Wilson, John (Durham, Mid.) |
| Robson, William Snowdon | Wallace, Robert | Woodhouse, Sir J. T. (Hudd'rsf'd |
| Roche, John | Walton, Joseph (Barnsley) | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Roe, Sir Thomas | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. | |
| Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel) | Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan | TELLERS FOR THE NOES— |
| Sheehan, Daniel Daniel | Weir, James Galloway | Captain Donelan and Mr. |
| Shipman, Dr. John G. | White, Luke (York, E. R.) | Patrick O'Brien. |
§ Mr. SPEAKERthen proceeded, in pursuance of the same Order, to put forthwith severally the Questions, That this House doth agree with the Committee in the outstanding Resolutions reported in respect of each class of the Civil Services Estimates, the Navy Estimates, the Army Estimates, and the Revenue Departments Estimates:—