§ (As amended, considered.)
§ *Sir CHARLES DILKE (Gloucester, Forest of Dean)With regard to the registration of voters, this Bill is left in a somewhat curious position by the Amendment which was accepted the other day. I see that it is the intention of the hon. Member who has charge of the Bill to attempt to reverse the decision which the Committee came to upon that occasion, and I shall—knowing that he is master of the battalions, although no doubt a stout resistance will be offered to that proposal—I shall not speak at length as I should otherwise have done, and I will confine myself to matters arising under the Bill as it originally stood. The hon. Baronet has placed in his Bill a provision as to which a good deal of attention has been called by Irish Members on former occa- 1136 sions in connection with registration in Ireland. The words of that provision, I think, have been taken from a clause in the Representation of the People Act of 1884, which established the service franchise. If this new clause of mine is not accepted, we shall have to scrutinise very carefully the provisions a little lower down. But, apart from these words, the present system is one which is established under the Representation of the People Act, 1884. That is substantially still in force, although it has been somewhat modified. That system rests on a declaration which was put in in the year 1884 on the motion of the late Mr. Edward Stanhope, on behalf of the Gentlemen who now sit on the front bench and constitute the Government of the Conservative Party. It is the impression of some persons that the whole proceeding takes place under these words of Mr. Stanhope's; but that is not the case, for there is not only a form introduced by which an inquiry is made as to service, and a form is given, which is filled up, and then those persons are placed upon the list; but the overseers are also able to place persons on the service franchise entirely apart from the use of that form, and the revising barristers are able to transfer people from the ordinary list to the service franchise list, and vice versâ. A most extraordinary want of uniformity prevails throughout the country with regard to the extent to which these privileges are available. I will mention one extreme case, which is a striking one. In two divisions of Northumberland there are a large number of service voters, such as shepherds and persons of that class. In one of these divisions there are over 1,300 service voters on the register, while in the adjoining division there are but eight service voters on the register at all. That shows that in some cases the overseers place them on the list as they should do, whilst in other places they put them on as ordinary tenants. This practice is not very carefully scrutinised in court, because it does not affect the Parliamentary vote. Supposing that the Amendment of my hon. friend the Member for North Monmouth, which was carried the other day, should not be reversed, the case is stronger than if the Bill stands as it formerly stood, because that Amendment would affect persons who would be indistinguishable from the lodger class, except for the fact that they do not 1137 pay £10 a year, and the case for making them go through the same form as lodgers would be made all the stronger. But even under the Bill as it stands, without the Amendment of my hon. friend, we must remember how the service franchise is affected by the Bill itself. This Bill will introduce to the service franchise voters who are under the strictest discipline, such as persons who live in cubicles, and who are subject to the orders of some person who has the power of moving them about. Where you have militiamen living in a single room in cubicles it will be absolutely within the power of the sergeant or the staff-sergeant who has control of these men to break their occupation. By shifting a man—which he has the power to do by military discipline—from one cubicle to another, he prevents that man qualifying for a vote by occupation; whereas with another militiaman all he has to do is to leave him undisturbed, and that man will come on the register. This is a matter which ought to be very carefully scrutinised, because there are cases where this power may possibly be abused. There have been cases under the present law where this has happened, and it will be abused in the future. The Amendment which I have placed upon the paper is the only means which occur to me for meeting this difficulty, for it applies the fourth section of the Act of 1867 to this case. It makes the people claim as if they were lodgers, subject, of course, to the provisions of the Act of 1878, by which the old lodgers obtained a primâ facie right. They do not have to attend unless they are objected to, and receive notice of such objection. I need hardly say that if a better way were suggested to the House I should very gladly withdraw this particular form of words; but I have taken the only words which occur to me, and I beg to move the new clause which stands in my name.
§
New clause—
All enactments and all orders made in pursuance of the Registration Acts which relate to the registration of persons entitled to vote in respect of a lodger qualification shall relate with the necessary variations and alterations of precepts, notices, lists, and other forms to persons qualified to vote under the service franchise."—(Sir C. Dilke.)
§ Brought up and read the first time.
1138
§
Motion made and Question proposed—
That the clause be read a second time.
§ SIR J. BLUNDELL MAPLE (Camberwell, Dulwich)I am sorry to have to oppose the introduction of this clause, but I consider that it would be greatly against the interests of the voter that he should have to go and make a claim for his vote. It seems to me that the right hon. Gentleman opposite, who desires that every man should have a vote, ought to try in every possible way to make it easy for a man to obtain a vote. I think if the service franchise voter has to go and ask for time off in order to substantiate his claim, it would be greatly to the detriment of that man obtaining a vote. As regards the words which were left out the other day, I am one of those who would be rather inclined to thank the hon. Gentleman on the other side for moving to leave out those words, because his action will strengthen my side from a party point of view. But the object of this Bill has not been at all to do that; it is simply to undo a decision of the Courts and correct the injustice that was done by the decision of the Lords of Appeal against the decision of Lord Justice Rigby, when he said that a dwelling-room must have walls right up to the ceiling. It is only for that purpose that this Bill has been brought forward. If the words I have alluded to are left out, then all our butlers and footmen and employees in hotels and in different businesses, where the owner lives upon the premises and can exercise an influence upon them, would be put on the register. I should not object to that, although it is a much further extension of the franchise than was contemplated in the Representation of the People Act of 1884. I know it will be a great gain to a certain Party if those words are left out, but I have treated this Bill as I believe it was right and proper I should treat it, and I have simply tried to get back the original intention of the Bill, and I do hope that my right hon. friend will not press this particular Instruction, because it will be necessary for us to oppose it.
§ MR. T. M. HEALY (Louth, N.)I am sorry that the right hon. Baronet opposite has decided to oppose this Amendment, and I think the right hon. Gentleman the Member for the Forest of Dean has done a great public service in moving the 1139 introduction of this new clause. I am sure the right hon. Baronet opposite has no party intention or political end in view in bringing in this Bill, but I must look at it in the light in which it will affect Ireland. I take the case of the City of Derry. This Bill, if it is passed in its present form, will lose to the Nationalists the representation of the City of Derry and also North Tyrone, and probably another seat which I do not care to particularise. I think that the decision of the courts, which the hon. Baronet by his Bill is seeking to get rid of, was one of the most just decisions which was ever arrived at in a registration case. Suppose an employer in a large way of business has ten assistants, and they are living in a dormitory. At present they have not the franchise unless they each occupy a separate room. But what the right hon. Baronet opposite desires is this—that if they are put into cubicles they shall each have a vote. At the present time they must have a dividing line or partition, and they must have a roof or a ceiling over it. Now, I do not think it is a great deal to require that a person should occupy one room, and that there should be a ceiling over it. Take the case of a policeman who lives with other policemen at the station, and there is a plank between their beds. Under this Bill the inspector could claim a vote for every one of these policemen living in cubicles. What the Court said was that they must draw the line somewhere, and they decided that a "house" is not a bunk in which a policeman sleeps. I think that was a sound decision. Now, what does the hon. Baronet the Member for the Forest of Dean seek to do by his Amendment? If this Bill is passed in its present shape, all that you will have to do in order to get votes for your shop assistants is to place them in a dormitory, and put between each of them a curtain, and then you can call it a cubicle or a room, and claim a vote for the person who occupies it. I really do not see why a chalk line drawn between the parties would not be sufficient. Why not let us have manhood suffrage at once? Unless this Amendment is carried, let me tell the House what will happen. I take a man in the City of Derry who employs ten or twelve assistants, and suppose five of them are Catholics and five Protestants. That man can shift the Catholics about from bunk to bunk during the qualifying period 1140 in such a way that the Papists will lose their votes while the solid Protestants will have practically fixity of tenure in their bunks, and it is perfectly idle to contend that this kind of shifting will not go on unless this Amendment is carried. The hon. Baronet the Member for the Forest of Dean proposes that when you are giving the franchise under these exceptional conditions the person who is getting it shall make a claim and substantiate and prove that he has been in occupation for twelve months, and then the employer cannot shift out of it. I take also the case of the pensioners and places where soldiers live in barracks. Why, Sir, it would be possible for a partisan official to shift all the soldiers and all pensioners from one room to another according to their political opinions. It is well known in Ireland that politics and religion go hand in hand; at all events, you can always tell a man's politics by his religion; and unless some safeguard, such as the right hon. Baronet has suggested, is adopted you will really be leaving the door open to the most tremendous abuses. I feel sure that the hon. Baronet opposite only intended to enlarge the franchise, and there may be cases where the present law acts somewhat harshly. In my opinion, however, the present law as it has been administered in England and Ireland since the recent decision is on a sound and satisfactory basis, and ought not to be disturbed unless you are going to give the franchise generally and impartially to every citizen. This is not a measure really to give a vote to those who live in cubicles, but to give it to their employer, for it leaves the employer to determine which of his men shall have the vote, and it is not a wrong thing to ask that, at all events, the same precaution which you take in regard to lodgers who have the shifting franchise should be established in this case. Why do you require these precautions for the lodger? The lodger remains in the same lodgings very often for years, and why is he to be put upon a lower basis than a man who occupies a cubicle, not by virtue of paying rent, but simply by virtue of the provision made for him by his employer? The lodger pays money out of his own pocket for his occupation, and he has to come off year after year; and so great is the abuse of the lodger franchise in Ireland that my hon. and learned friend opposite holds his seat by 1141 virtue of bogus lodger votes; and yet the precautions which you insist upon in the case of a lodger are deemed to be entirely unnecessary in the case of the service franchise, where an employer can shift men about like nine pins. I hope the right hon. Baronet will go to a Division on this Amendment, and I trust the general consequences of this Bill will be realised by the House, for I am afraid that this measure has not received the attention which it deserves. The hon. Baronet opposite is master of the situation, and I can only say that if this Bill passes without this Amendment I shall certainly move that it shall not apply to Ireland. I would respectfully ask him not to plunge us into a general discussion affecting the franchise and its application to Ireland, because I assure him that that would not lead to the progress of his Bill.
§ MR. ROBERT WALLACE (Perth)I would point out that under the present law it is already in the power of the employer at the present time, by shifting a person from the room he occupies, to disfranchise him. Therefore it is not for that reason at all that I support the Amendment of my right hon. friend. I confess that I do not share the fears which have been expressed by so many hon. Members in regard to enfranchising those who occupy what have been called bunks or cubicles. It is perfectly true, as has been pointed out already, that for years these persons have had the franchise, until they were restrained by the Court of Appeal some 18 months ago. The hon. Baronet opposite does not seem to be aware that at the present time lodgers have not to attend the revision courts in order to make their claims, for the law was altered in tins respect some years ago. They have now simply to make a claim accompanied by a declaration, and the reason why I support the clause of the right hon. Baronet is that I think it is most desirable, when you are introducing these new service voters upon your register, that you should make sure that they are really qualified, and you should insist upon it that they should make a declaration which, if false, would render them liable to punishment. That, I think, would be the effect of the operation of the Amendment of the right hon. Baronet the Member for the Forest of Dean. I think all of us are anxious that the register should exactly represent the bona fide electors of the district, and that 1142 only those who are fully qualified should be upon the list, no matter which side they belong to. Therefore I think it is necessary that some such declaration should be made before these persons are placed upon the register. I am not sure that the Amendment is not much wider in its scope than the right hon. Baronet the Member for Forest of Dean intends. It says:
All enactments and all orders made in pursuance of the Registration Acts which relate to the registration of persons entitled to vote in respect of a lodger qualification.It applies all these enactments and orders to the persons who will be placed on the service franchise in future. I wish to ask my hon. and learned friend the Solicitor-General what the exact operation of those words will be, and whether, in fact, it might not cover the case of hardship described by the right hon. Baronet the Member for the Forest of Dean—that is, whether under the existing law a person who changes his rooms is entitled to claim as a lodger so long as he occupies other rooms in the same house. I want to ask my hon. and learned friend whether all the enactments and orders which apply to lodgers will also apply to the service franchise, and whether the effect of that would not be also to enable the service voter who has changed his occupation, as my hon. and learned friend has described, from one bunk to another, to claim by right of succession in the same way as lodgers. If that were so, and if the operation of the clause would bring in the right of succession as I have described it, then all the difficulties, I venture to suggest, of disfranchisement would absolutely disappear. It is for this reason, and not because I have the slightest desire, as everyone knows, to keep any of these voters off the list, that I support the clause of the right hon. Gentleman.
§ CAPTAIN NORTON (Newington, W.)I desire to support this Amendment because I wish to oppose this Bill as a whole, and one of my main reasons for doing so is that it will enlarge the franchise very unfairly. The effect of it is that it enlarges the franchise to the detriment of a great number of working men throughout London, while it places those who live in cubicles in an advantageous and privileged position.
§ *MR. SPEAKERThe hon. Member cannot argue against the principle of the Bill now; he must confine himself to the discussion of the clause which is before the House.
§ CAPTAIN NORTONThe Amendment of my right hon. friend will meet my objection to a certain extent, inasmuch as it will place the service voters on a better footing of equality. At the present moment, if a voter entitled to the service franchise is placed in the position in which the hon. Baronet seeks to place him, he would have an undoubted advantage over the lodger. It would be in the power of the employer to enfranchise or disfranchise any one of these individuals; whereas a lodger, owing to the fact that he cannot obtain another room in the same house, and is obliged to go to another house, would thereby lose his vote. There are many warehouse assistants in London who, when they obtain a better position in their place of business, desire to move into a better class of lodging—men, so to speak, who have risen in the social status, but who would be deprived of the vote. The result of the Amendment would be to diminish to an appreciable extent the injustice which the hon. Baronet would do to a large number of men throughout the metropolis.
§ cannot think this is a desirable Amendment, as it might have a disfranchising effect. Whereas at present it is the duty of the overseer to get returns in respect of those who are occupiers, and who ought to be put on the register, it would make it incumbent on every person to prepare a list, and send in a claim as if he were a lodger. That was not the intention of the Legislature when the service franchise was passed. We hear a good deal about legislation by reference, and another objection to the Amendment is that it would be one of the most effectual instances of legislation by reference I ever heard of. My hon. and learned friend opposite asked a question as to what the effect of the clause would be. If my hon. and learned friend is puzzled as to what the effect of the clause would be, anyone might be excused if he were puzzled. Until a particular case arose, and it was carefully looked into, it would be perfectly impossible to say what the effect of the Amendment would be. It professes to apply only to enactments relating to registration, but the question is extremely difficult and complicated, and it would be unwise to adopt the clause without further consideration.
§ Question put.
§ The House divided: Ayes, 139; Noes, 184. (Division List No. 189.)
1145| AYES. | ||
| Abraham, William (Rhondda) | Collery, Bernard | Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Sir Wm. |
| Allan, William (Gateshead) | Colville, John | Harwood, George |
| Allen, Wm(Newc.under Lyme) | Commins, Andrew | Hayden, John Patrick |
| Allison, Robert Andrew | Crombie, John William | Hayne, Rt. Hon. C. Seale- |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Davies,M.Vaughan-(Cardigan | Hazell, Walter |
| Asquith, Rt. Hon. Herb. Hy. | Davitt, Michael | Healy, Thomas J. (Wexford) |
| Austin, M. (Limerick, W.) | Dillon, John | Hedderwick, Thos. C. H. |
| Baker, Sir John | Donelan, Captain A. | Hemphill, Rt. Hon. Ch. H. |
| Barlow, John Emmott | Doogan, P. C. | Holland,Wm. H. (York, W.R.) |
| Barry, E. (Cork, S.) | Duckworth, James | Horniman, Frederick John |
| Bayley, Thomas (Derbyshire) | Dunn, Sir William | Hutton, Alfred E. (Morley) |
| Billson, Alfred | Evans, Samuel T. (Glamorgan | Jacoby, James Alfred |
| Birrell, Augustine | Evans, Sir F. H. (South'ton) | Johnson-Ferguson,Jabez Edw. |
| Broadhurst, Henry | Farrell, James P. (Cavan, W.) | Joicey, Sir James |
| Brunner, Sir John Tomlinson | Fenwick, Charles | Jones, David Brynmor (Swan.) |
| Bryce, Right Hon. James | Ferguson, R. C. Munro (Leith) | Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire) |
| Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn | Ffrench, Peter | Jordan, Jeremiah |
| Burns, John | Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond | Kay-Shuttleworth,Rt.H.Sir U. |
| Burt, Thomas | Flavin, Michael Joseph | Kearley, Hudson E. |
| Buxton, Sydney Charles | Foster, Sir W. (Derby Co.) | Kinloch,SirJohnGeorgeSmyth |
| Caldwell, James | Gibney, James | Kitson, Sir James |
| Cameron, Robert (Durham) | Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Her. John | Langley, Batty |
| Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. | Goddard, Daniel Ford | Lawson, Sir W. (Cumb'land) |
| Carvill, Patrick G. Hamilton | Gold, Charles | Leng, Sir John |
| Causton, Richard Knight | Gourley, Sir Edw. Temperley | Leuty, Thomas Richmond |
| Cawley, Frederick | Gurdon, Sir Wm. Brampton | Lewis, John Herbert |
| Clark, Dr.G.B.(Caithness-sh.) | Hammond, John (Carlow) | Lloyd-George, David |
| Lough, Thomas | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) | Tennant, Harrold John |
| Macaleese, Daniel | Oldroyd, Mark | Thomas, A. (Glamorgan, E.) |
| MacDonnell,DrM.A.(Q'n'sC.) | Palmer, Sir C. M. (Durham) | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| MacNeill, John Gordon Swift | Paulton, James Mellor | Wallace, Robert |
| M'Arthur, Wm. (Cornwall) | Perks, Robert William | Walton, Joseph (Barnsley) |
| M'Ewan, William | Pickard, Benjamin | Wedderburn, Sir William |
| M'Ghee, Richard | Power, Patrick Joseph | Weir, James Galloway |
| M'Kenna, Reginald | Price, Robert John | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer |
| M'Leod, John | Priestly, Briggs (Yorks) | Willams, John Carvell (Notts) |
| Maddison, Fred. | Reckitt, Harold James | Wilson, H. J. (York, W. R.) |
| Maden, John Henry | Richardson, J. (Durham, S.E.) | Wilson, John (Durham, Mid.) |
| Mellor, Rt. Hn. J. W. (Yorks) | Rickett, J. Compton | Wilson, John (Govan) |
| Molloy, Bernard Charles | Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) | Wilson, Jos. H. (Middlesbro') |
| Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carm'rth'n) | Robertson, Edmund (Dundee) | Woods, Samuel |
| Morrell, George Herbert | Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees) | Young, Samuel (Cavan, East) |
| Morris, Samuel | Schwann, Charles E. | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Moss, Samuel | Scott, Chas. Prestwich (Leigh) | |
| Norton, Captain C. W. | Sinclair, Capt. J. Forfarshire) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES— |
| O'Brien, James F. X. (Cork) | Stevenson, Francis S. | Sir Charles Dilke and Mr. |
| O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | Sullivan Donal (Westmeath) | T. M. Healy. |
| O'Connor, J. (Wicklow, W.) | Sullivan, T. D. (Donegal, W.) | |
| NOES. | ||
| Aird, John | Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V. | Long, Col. C. W. (Evesham) |
| Allsopp, Hon. George | Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton | Long, Rt. Hn. W. (Liverpool) |
| Anstruther, H. T. | Elliot, Hon. A. R. Douglas | Lopes, Henry Yarde Buller |
| Archdale, Edward Mervyn | Fardell, Sir T. George | Maclean, James Mackenzie |
| Arnold, Alfred | Field, Admiral (Eastbourne) | M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) |
| Arrol, Sir William | Finch, George H. | M'Killop, James |
| Ashmead-Bartlett, Sir Ellis | Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne | Malcolm, Ian |
| Ballot, Captain J. Fitzroy | Firbank, Joseph Thomas | Marks, Henry Hananel |
| Bailey, James (Walworth) | Fison, Frederick William | Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire) |
| Baird, John George Alex. | Fitz Wygram, General Sir F. | Milward, Colonel Victor |
| Baldwin, Alfred | Flannery, Sir Fortescue | Monk, Charles James |
| Banbury, Frederick George | Fletcher, Sir Henry | Moon, Edward Robert Pacy |
| Barry, Rt. Hon. A. H.S. (Hunts | Flower, Ernest | More,Robt.Jasper(Shropshire) |
| Barton, Dunbar Plunket | Folkestone, Viscount | Morgan, Hn. Fred (Monm'thsh. |
| Beach,Rt. Hn.Sir M. H. (Bris.) | Garfit, William | Morrison, Walter |
| Bemrose, Si. Henry Howe | Gibbons, J. Lloyd | Morton, A. H. A. (Deptford) |
| Bethell, Commander | Giles, Charles Tyrrell | Murray, Rt. En. A. G. (Bute) |
| Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. | Gordon, Hon. John Edward | Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) |
| Biddulph, Michael | Goschen, George J. (Sussex) | Myers, William Henry |
| Bill, Charles | Goulding, Edward Alfred | Newark, Viscount |
| Blakiston-Houston, John | Graham, Henry Robert | Nicholson, William Graham |
| Blundell, Colonel Henry | Gray, Ernest (West Ham) | Nicol, Donald Ninian |
| Bolitho, Thomas Bedford | Gretton, John | Northcote, Hn. Sir H. Stafford |
| Brookfield, A. Montagu | Gunter, Colonel | Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay |
| Brown, Alexander H. | Hanson, Sir Reginald | Parkes, Ebenezer |
| Campbell, Rt.Hn.J.A.(Glasg.) | Hare, Thomas Leigh | Parnell, John Howard |
| Cavendish, V. C. W.(Derbsh.) | Heath, James | Pease, H. Pike (Darlington) |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, E.) | Hickman, Sir Alfred | Percy, Earl |
| Clarke, Sir Edward (Plym.) | Hoare, E. B. (Hampstead) | Pierpoint, Robert |
| Clough, Walter Owen | Hoare, Samuel (Norwich) | Pilkington, R. (Lancs. Newton) |
| Coddington, Sir William | Hobhouse, Henry | Powell, Sir Francis Sharp |
| Coghill, Douglas Harry | Houldsworth, Sir W. Henry | Priestley, Sir W. O. (Edin.) |
| Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Howard, Joseph | Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward |
| Colston, Chas. Edw. H.Athole | Hozier, Hon. Jas. Henry Cecil | Purvis, Robert |
| Cooke, C. W. R. (Hereford) | Hutchinson, Capt.G.W.Grice- | Rasch, Major Frederic Carne |
| Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow) | Jebb, Richard Claverhouse | Redmond, J. E. (Waterford) |
| Cornwallis, Fiennes S. W. | Johnson, William (Belfast) | Renshaw, Charles Bine |
| Courtney, Rt. Hon. L. H. | Kenyon, James | Rentoul, James Alexander |
| Cripps, Charles Alfred | Kenyon-Slaney, Col. William | Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) |
| Cross, H. Shepherd (Bolton) | Kimber, Henry | Rothschild, Hon. Lionel W. |
| Cruddas, William Donaldson | King, Sir Henry Seymour | Round, James |
| Curzon, Viscount | Knowles, Lees | Russell, Gen. F.S.(Cheltenh'm) |
| Dalbiac, Colonel Philip Hugh | Labouchere, Henry | Russell, T. W. (Tyrone) |
| Davies, Sir Horatio D. (Chat.) | Laurie, Lieut.-General | Rutherford, John |
| Denny, Colonel | Lawrence,Sir E.Durn'g- (Cor.) | Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert |
| Dixon-Hartland, Sir F. Dixon | Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.) | Savory, Sir Joseph |
| Donkin, Richard Sim | Leigh-Bennott, Henry Currie | Scoble, Sir Andrew Richard |
| Doughty, George | Llewellyn, E. H. (Somerset) | Seely, Charles Hilton |
| Doxford, William Theodore | Llewellyn,SirDillywn-(Swan.) | Seton-Karr, Henry |
| Drucker, A. | Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine | Sharpe, William Edward T. |
| Shaw-Stewart,M. H.(Renfrew) | Tritton, Charles Ernest | Wodehouse, Rt. Hn E. R. (Bath |
| Sidebotham, J. W. (Cheshire) | Usborne, Thomas | Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm |
| Sidebottom, Wm. (Derbysh.) | Vincent, Col Sir C. E. Howard | Wylie, Alexander |
| Simeon, Sir Barrington | Walrond, Rt. Hon. Sir Wm. H. | Wyndham-Quin, Major W. H. |
| Smith, Jas. Parker (Lanarks.) | Warde, Lieut.-Col.C.E. (Kent) | Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy |
| Spencer, Ernest | Warr, Augustus Frederick | Young, Commander (Berks,E.) |
| Stanley, Edw. Jas. (Somerset) | Webster, R. G. (St. Pancras) | |
| Stanley, Henry M. (Lambeth) | Wentworth, Bruce C. Vernon- | |
| Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M. | Wharton, Rt. Hon. John Lloyd | TELLERS FOR THE NOES— |
| Stock, James Henry | Whitely, George (Stockport) | Sir Blundell Maple and |
| Stone, Sir Benjamin | Whiteley,H. (Ashton-under-L. | Captain Jessel. |
| Thornburn, Walter | Willox, Sir John Archibald | |
| Tomlinson, Wm. Ed. Murray | Wilson,J. W.(Worcestersh.N.) |
§ MR. T. M. HEALY (Louth, N.)I wish to move an Amendment limiting the application of the Bill to England and Scotland.
§ *MR. SPEAKERI think the Amendment of the hon. Member ought to come in at the end of the Bill.
§ MR. T. M. HEALYIn that case it would have to be in the form of a new clause, and I could not move it without notice.
§ *MR. SPEAKERI think it might be moved as an Amendment to Clause 3.
§ SIR J. BLUNDELL MAPLEThe effect of the Amendment I now propose will be to put back the Bill into exactly the same position as it was when I introduced it, and before that little error, as I consider it, of my hon. friends opposite occurred last Wednesday, when they voted to omit the words which I propose to reinsert. By leaving out these words the spirit that pervaded the service franchise, ever since it was adopted by the late Mr. Gladstone, was entirely altered. The object of this Bill was simply to restore the franchise to certain classes of service employees, who were disfranchised by a decision of a Court of Appeal.
§
Amendment proposed—
In page 1, line 6, after the word 'employment,' to insert the words 'and the dwelling-house is not inhabited by any person under whom such man serves in such office, service, or employment.'"—(Sir Blundell Maple.)
§
Question proposed—
That those words be there inserted.
§ *SIR CHARLES DILKEAt the time of the introduction of the service franchise in 1884 the only objection taken to it by the Conservative Party was on this point, and it was made by the 1148 Leader of that Party. Sir Stafford Northcote in an extraordinarily short speech said:—
Under this clause, if a Minister did not inhabit a public office assigned to him, the office-keeper would have a vote; on the other hand, it would be that if a Minister occupied the house as a dwelling, the office-keeper would lose his vote.Now, the absurdity which Sir Stafford Northcote pointed out on that occasion was again pointed out the other day, and we think the time has come to do away with these restrictions which are involved in the words the hon. Baronet proposed to put back in the Bill. I frankly confess that we designed by the Amendment moved last Wednesday to make such a hole in the existing complicated franchises as to make it certain that a broad and simple franchise would be speedily adopted. We shall certainly take the opinion of the House before we allow the decision of the House last Wednesday to be reversed, and if we are beaten it will show, I think, the hollowness of the pretence that this is a large extension of the franchise, and that we are in favour of a much fuller and simpler franchise.
§ MR. ROBERT WALLACEIn regard to this particular Amendment, I wish to point out to the hon. Baronet opposite that on the Second Reading I stated that whilst we could not but recognise that there was a grievance to be redressed, at the same time there was a danger that in striving to remedy that grievance we would probably introduce a greater anomaly than at present exists. I ventured to ask the hon. Baronet in charge of the Bill at the time of the Second Reading bow he proposed to deal with the lodger question, and I got from him a pledge, which the hon. Baronet has perhaps forgotten, in regard to the subject matter of this very Amendment. I pointed out that in a large part of Lon- 1149 don, but especially in the warehouses established in the West Central district, the employees there resident were deprived of their service franchise owing to the fact that their employers, who resided ordinarily beyond the mileage limit, kept a bedroom in the warehouse for their occasional use. By that means the employers obtained for themselves an occupation franchise, but they deprived all those who were resident in these large blocks of buildings of the service franchise.
§ SIR J. BLUNDELL MAPLEWhat I said at that time, and I say it now, was that if the hon. and learned Gentleman, or any other hen. Member, will bring forward a Bill to do away with that anomaly I would support it; but I cannot consent to deal with the matter in this Bill.
§ MR. ROBERT WALLACEI am far from charging the hon. Baronet with a breach of faith, but I did put this difficulty before him on the Second Reading, and I understood the hon. Baronet to say that he would strive to remedy it in connection with this Bill. I may have misapprehended him, of course. The clause as it stands would, it is true, remedy that which all recognise as an undoubted grievance. I am not speaking in any hostile spirit against the Bill, but I am most unwilling that a greater grievance should be raised by pressing the Amendment on this measure than the grievance which is proposed to be taken away. I shall point out how this difficulty arose. A list is made out at present of those who are occupiers of dwelling-houses in London, and the courts of law decided that part of a house or dwelling whore the landlord was non-resident would come within the definition of the occupation franchise, and consequently all those who occupy different rooms in a house were put on the list as occupiers. But they stuck to the principle that as long as a landlord had a room in the house, and occupied it, there could be no other occupier, and that all the others resident in the house were simply lodgers. Now, may I point out to the House the effect of that decision. A lodger only obtains his vote on condition that he occupies a particular part of a house of a certain annual value. A great deal of misunderstanding arose from the fact that it was supposed that the lodger should pay £10 per annum. But nothing of the 1150 kind is necessary. The lodger may either pay rent, or he may occupy his room or rooms under the condition of rendering services, and if his services are of the equivalent value of £10 a year, as long as he is not compelled by his contract to reside on the premises, he is entitled to the lodger franchise. I want to ask hon. Gentlemen opposite why they are going to select one particular class of lodgers and give them the franchise, and deprive all other lodgers of the franchise under the existing law. The lodgers you are selecting to give the franchise to are the class least suitable for the privilege. They are dependent, residing on the premises, and under the control of the employer, liable to be enfranchised or disfranchised at any moment by their employer; while the other lodgers whom you are excluding from the franchise are independent lodgers—in fact tenants, occupying their own room and under the control of no one. In the one case, you have full-grown men and women, married it may be, quite independent; in the other case you have youths of 21 or 22 years of age, absolutely dependent on their employers, and yet you select them for the franchise while you refuse the qualification to the others. It is for that reason that while this clause remains as it is it is impossible to support this part of the Bill. I do not know whether my hon. mid learned friend the Solicitor-General would for one moment accept the Bill on behalf of the Government in the form it stands to-day. I am perfectly certain that, knowing my hon. and learned friend the Solicitor-General as a great lawyer, he will tell this House that to pass the Bill as it stands to-day is to destroy a qualification existing at present for the franchise. I ask, in all sincerity, is it not a great pity to tinker in this manner with the franchise? I am not referring to questions which are controversial; I am not discussing whether it is necessary to shorten the term of occupation, or the question of one man one vote, but I am simply pointing out to the Solicitor-General how, by two lines in this Bill, he could remove one of the greatest inequalities existing in regard to the franchise. He might introduce a prevision something like this: that, as to all persons who occupy a part of any premises under circumstances in which, if the landlords or employers were not resident, they would be held to be 1151 inhabiting occupiers, the presence of the employers or landlords should not disqualify them from being registered. I say at once if anybody stays to consider the effect of this Amendment they will find this distinction; as a question of law, lodgers' and occupiers' qualifications are precisely the same. Where the landlord resides in the basement the persons occupying the house are lodgers, but if the landlord controls his house in the same way but lives next door they are occupiers. I am quite sure the Solicitor-General would not defend this Amendment, and I ask him now to give us some assurance that he will introduce an Amendment on some such lines as I have suggested. If he does that he will receive the cordial support of all those who sit upon this side of the House.
§ SIR R. B. FINLAYI am afraid I cannot do as the hon. Gentleman suggests, and I think I will leave that to my hon. and learned friend when he in his turn has to fill the position I now hold. I am personally in favour of re-introducing the words struck out in Committee, because to my mind the alteration made in Committee will have a very far-reaching effect, not in the way of a direct dealing with the subject, but by a side wind. The distinction between a lodger and an occupier may be shortly described in this way: where the landlord resides upon the premises in which a man lives the man is a lodger, and where he resides in a house in which the landlord does not live he is an occupier. Those who now have the service franchise get it as occupiers, not as lodgers, and if you provide that these also are to have the service franchise you must go further, and by a Parliamentary miracle convert every person who would be a lodger into an occupier, so that, by being an occupier, he may enjoy the franchise independently of his landlord. Under those circumstances a lodger, who now has to have an occupation of the value of £10, would enjoy the franchise as an occupier whatever the value of his occupation might be. I am not going to discuss a question of that kind. I have only risen for the purpose of pointing out how far-reaching the alteration was which was made in Committee, and to say that, individually, I intend to vote against the striking out of these words.
§ MR. ASQUITH (Fife, E.)The objection we on this side have to the Bill in its present form is twofold: first, it is too far-reaching, and it does not deal directly with the subject, but deals with it by a side wind. This is a tinkering attempt to deal with a very small part of a very large question, which will produce not greater uniformity in the law, but give rise to a fresh set of anomalies and injustices. The object of this Bill is to reintroduce to the suffrage a class which may be called dependent voters, which is at present excluded by the decision of a court of law. I think that they ought to have the suffrage. It is impossible to separate this class of persons from the case of other persons. If you are going to allow those who, by virtue of fee, service, or employment occupy positions in the same shop, at which the landlord does not reside, to have the franchise, how can you deny the same privilege to persons occupying the same position in similar services because the employer does reside on the premises? If you are going to deal with this question at all it must be dealt with by a more logical method. I am speaking I believe the universal opinion of this side of the House when I say, not that we oppose this Bill because it extends the franchise, but we oppose this Bill because it does not extend the franchise in the only way that it should be extended by getting rid of the lodger and occupier and giving every man who occupies an inhabited house an equal right to take part in the elections, in whichever character he occupies that house.
§ MR. T. M. HEALYThe Attorney-General of England has spoken in a very singular way of the decision of the House of Commons, from whom I take it we have a right to expect something in the shape of wisdom as a legislative body. He also forgets, curiously enough, that the decision he refers to, which distinguished between a lodger and an ordinary householder, was disputed by the Conservative Party of the day. The hon. and learned Member for Plymouth was counsel on the one side, and Lord Russell and Lord Herschell counsel on the other, and they contended for the view which we now take. Nobody referring to that decision can deny that it was quite against the Conservative view of that day. I remember that I applied to Lord Herschell to reverse the decision, but the 1153 argument then was of a different character. Mr. Gladstone's view was to let all the decisions stand and simply pass a general Act, and give the county franchise the same position which the borough franchise now enjoys. But let us consider what this Bill suggests. It suggests that these dependents shall have a right to a franchise which the honest working man, who pays for the room he occupies, will not have. The object of the Bill is to present to a large class of persons, assistants in shops, warders, attendants in asylums, hospitals, stablemen, gardeners, grooms, and policemen a right to vote. You give them a sort of shifting qualification according as their landlord shifts their bunks. At the moment the landlord comes to reside in the house they occupy they are to lose their right to vote. You are giving a groom or gardener two important rights that the working man has not got. He need not reside in a room, but only in a bunk, and a bunk need not be rated for the relief of the poor. We talk about manhood suffrage, but what about groomhood suffrage? I protest against it. I do not think that it is a harsh requirement that a man should live in a room in order to have the franchise. If this Bill is passed you might put two sticks in the ground to al sling a hammock between them, and then, swinging in your hammock, say, without rating and not occupying a room, you might enjoy the benefit of the franchise. It may be said to be an anomaly, but there it is. When Mr. Gladstone brought in this clause he was thought to be going very far, but he brought it in in a state of things then known to Parliament, and said the man must occupy a room. I look forward to the day when the courts will be occupied in defining the compartment of a room.
§ MR. SPEAKEROrder, order. The hon. Member is going into another part of the clause.
§ MR. T. M. HEALYThe immediate question before the House is whether the landlord should occupy the house or not. Really the whole thing covers itself with I absurdity, and I respectfully say we ought to return to common-sense, namely, to the decision of the Committee last week. I do hope that the House will support the Committee in respect of the decision at which the Committee arrived last week.
§ *SERJEANT HEMPHILL (Tyrone, N.)As an Irishman, I must ask to be permitted to say a few words, and I do so because my hon. friend the Member for Louth said on a recent occasion that my seat was one of those which was threatened by this legislation. I assume, therefore, that this measure applies to Ireland, and that being so, I think I have a right to complain that it has been very inadequately discussed so far as the interest of Ireland is concerned. Every stage of it has been taken at a time when very few Irish Members were present, and the Bill, if passed, will have very far-reaching consequences. The House hardly realises how it will affect the general franchise of the country. I trust that this Amendment will not be carried, because the only redeeming feature of the Bill is that, as it now reads, it abolishes the distinction between the resident and non-resident employer. What difference can there be whether the employer resides on the premises or not; will not, the employee be equally fitted for the franchise, whether he, the master, lives on the premises or elsewhere? Why should the employees of a man who may live in one of the great squares of the West End be placed in a better position than those of a man who is obliged to reside on the premises where he exercises his trade or business? I cannot conceive anything more unfair. If it is considered right that the employees should have a right to vote, let them have it, but let the same principle be applied to all employees, irrespective of where the employer may reside.
§ MR. ABEL THOMAS (Carmarthen, E.)If you read the definition into these proposed words, you will see exactly what you are going to do. "Where a man himself inhabits any compartment of a house by virtue of any fee, service, or employment, and the compartment is not inhabited by anyone else"—that clearly means so long as the master does not share the compartment—"he shall have a vote," that is exactly what everybody wants to avoid, as I understand. If hon. Members will only read the Amendment with the definition, the whole matter is too clear for argument.
§ MR. CLANCY (Dublin Co., N.)This subject is, as I think, of very great importance, and certainly Irish Members have not had an opportunity of discussing 1155 the Bill as it should he discussed. I was under the impression that the Bill was confined in its application to England, but as it has general application, and is quite as important to Ireland as to England, and as we have had no opportunity to discuss it, and we cannot hope to discuss it in five minutes, I shall be obliged to
§ take up at least three times that amount of time in discussing this subject. I beg to move the adjournment of the Debate.
§
Motion made, and Question put—
That the Debate be now adjourned.
§ The House divided: Ayes, 139; Noes, 187. (Division List No. 190.)
1157| AYES. | ||
| Abraham, William (Rhondda) | Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton | Norton, Capt. Cecil William |
| Allan, William (Gateshead) | Hammond, John (Carlow) | O'Brien, J. F. X. (Cork) |
| Allen, W.(Newc.-und'r-Lyme) | Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Sir W. | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) |
| Allison, Robert Andrew | Harwood, George | Oldroyd, Mark |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Hayne, Rt. Hon. Chas. Seale- | Paulton, James Mellor |
| Baker, Sir John | Hazell, Walter | Perks, Robert William |
| Barlow, John Emmott | Healy, Thomas J. (Wexford) | Pickard, Benjamin |
| Barry, E. (Cork, S.) | Healy, Timothy M. (N. Louth) | Power, Patrick Joseph |
| Bayley, Thomas (Derbyshire) | Hedderwick, Thomas C. H. | Price, Robert John |
| Billson, Alfred | Hemphill, Rt. Hn. Charles H. | Priestley, Briggs (Yorks) |
| Birrell, Augustine | Holland, W. H. (York, W. R.) | Reckitt, Harold James |
| Broadhurst, Henry | Horniman, Frederick John | Richardson, J. (Durham, S.E.) |
| Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn | Hutton, Alfred E. (Morley) | Rickett, J. Compton |
| Burns, John | Jacoby, James Alfred | Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) |
| Burt, Thomas | Johnson-Ferguson, Jabez E. | Roche, John (East Galway) |
| Buxton, Sydney Charles | Joicey, Sir James | Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees) |
| Caldwell, James | Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire) | Schwann, Charles E. |
| Cameron, Robert (Durham) | Jordan, Jeremiah | Scott, C. Prestwich (Leigh) |
| Cawley, Frederick | Kay-Shuttleworth, RtHnSirU | Sinclair, Capt. J. (Forfarshire) |
| Clark,Dr. G.B.(Caithness-sh.) | Kearley, Hudson E. | Smith, Samuel (Flint) |
| Colville, John | Kilbride, Denis | Spicer, Albert |
| Commins, Andrew | Kinloch, Sir John George S. | Steadman, William Charles |
| Crilly, Daniel | Kitson, Sir James | Stevenson, Francis S. |
| Crombie, John William | Langley, Batty | Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath) |
| Curran, Thomas B. (Donegal) | Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cumber.) | Sullivan, T. D. (Donegal, W.) |
| Dalziel, James Henry | Leng, Sir John | Tennant, Harold John |
| Davies,M.Vaughan-(Cardig'n) | Leuty, Thomas Richmond | Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E. |
| Davitt, Michael | Lewis, John Herbert | Thomas, A. (Glamorgan, E.) |
| Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Lloyd-George, David | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Dillon, John | Lough, Thomas | Wallace, Robert |
| Donelan, Captain A. | Lyell, Sir Leonard | Walton, Joseph (Barnsley) |
| Doogan, P. C. | Macaleese, Daniel | Wedderburn, Sir William |
| Duckworth, James | MacNeill, Joint Gordon Swift | Weir, James Galloway |
| Dunn, Sir William | M'Arthur, Wm. (Cornwall) | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer |
| Evans, Samuel T. (Glamo'gn) | M'Ewan, William | Williams, John C. (Notts.) |
| Evans, Sir F. H. (Southa'ton) | M'Ghee, Richard | Wilson, H. J. (York, W.R.) |
| Farrel, James P. (Cavan, W.) | M'Kenna, Reginald | Wilson, John (Durham, Mid.) |
| Fenwick, Charles | M'Leod, John | Wilson, John (Govan) |
| Ferguson, R. C. Munro (Leith) | Maddison, Fred. | Wilson,J. H. (Middlesbrough) |
| Ffreneh, Peter | Maden, John Henry | Woodhouse,SirJ.T.(H'dd'rsf'd |
| Fitzmanrice, Lord Edmond | Mellor, Rt. Hn. J. W. (Yorks) | Woods, Samel |
| Flavin, Michael Joseph | Molloy, Bernard Charles | Young, Samuel (Cavan, East) |
| Foster, Sir W. (Derby Co.) | Morgan, J. L. (Carmarthen) | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Fox, Dr. Joseph Francis | Morgan, W. P. (Merthyr) | |
| Gibney, James | Morley, Charles (Breconshire) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES— |
| Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert J. | Morris, Samuel | Mr. Clancy and Mr. Hay- |
| Goddard, Daniel Ford | Morton, E. J. C. (Devonport) | den. |
| Gold, Charles | Moss, Samuel | |
| NOES. | ||
| Aird, John | Begg, Ferdinand Faithfull | Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, E.) |
| Allsopp, Hon. George | Bemrose, Sir Henry Howe | Clarke, Sir Edward (Plymouth |
| Anstruther, H. T. | Bethell, Commander | Clough, Walter Owen |
| Archdale, Edward Mervyn | Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. | Coddington, Sir William |
| Arrol, Sir William | Bigwood, James | Coghill, Douglas Harry |
| Bagot,Capt. Josceline FitzRoy | Bill, Charles | Cohen, Benjamin Louis |
| Bailey, James (Walworth) | Blakiston-Houston, John | Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse |
| Baird, John Geo. Alexander | Blundell, Colonel Henry | Colston, Chas. Ed. E. Athole |
| Baldwin, Alfred | Boulnois, Edmund | Cooke, C. W. R. (Hereford) |
| Banbury, Frederick George | Brookfield, A. Montagu | Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasg.) |
| Barry,Rt HnAH.Smith-(H'nts | Butcher, John George | Courtney, Rt. Hn. Leonard H. |
| Barton, Dunbar Plunkett | Campbell,Rt.Hn.J.A (Glasgow | Cripps, Charles Alfred |
| Beach, Rt.Hn,SirM.H.(Bristol) | Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derby.) | Cross, Alexander (Glasgow) |
| Cross, Herb. Sheph'd (Bolton) | Howard, Joseph | Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward |
| Cruddas, William Donaldson | Hozier, Hon. James Hy. Cecil | Purvis, Robert |
| Dalbiac, Col. Philip Hugh | Hubbard, Hon. Evelyn | Bedmond, JohnE.(Waterford) |
| Davies, Sir Hor. D. (Chatham | Hutchinson, Capt. G.W.Grice- | Renshaw, Charles Bine |
| Denny, Colonel | Jebb, Richard Claverhouse | Rentoul, James Alexander |
| Dixon-Hartland, Sir F. Dixon | Johnston, William (Belfast) | Rothschild,Hon. Lionel Walter |
| Donkin, Richard Sim | Kenyon, James | Round, James |
| Dorington, Sir John Edward | Kenyon-Slaney, Col. William | Russell, Gen. F. S. (Chelte'm |
| Doughty, George | Kimber, Henry | Russell, T. W. (Tyrone) |
| Doxford, William Theodore | King, Sir Henry Seymour | Rutherford, John |
| Drucker, A. | Knowles, Lees | Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert |
| Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V. | Labouchere, Henry | Seely, Charles Hilton |
| Dyke, Rt. Hon. Sir W. Hart | Laurie, Lieut.-General | Seton-Karr, Henry |
| Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton | Lawrence, SirE.Durn'g-(Corn. | Shaape, William Edward T. |
| Elliot, Hon. A.Ralph Douglas | Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.) | Sidebotham, J. W. (Cheshire) |
| Fergusson, Rt. Hn.SirJ. (M'n'r | Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie | Sidebottom, Wm. (Derbysh.) |
| Field, Admiral (Eastbourne) | Llewellyn, E. H. (Somerset) | Simeon, Sir Barrington |
| Finch, George H. | Llewelyn, Sir D. (Swansea) | Smith, Jas. Parker (Lanaks) |
| Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne | Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine | Spencer, Ernest |
| Firbank, Joseph Thomas | Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (L'pool) | Stanley, Ed. Jas. (Somerset) |
| Fisher, William Hayes | Lopes, Henry Yarde Buller | Stanley, Henry M. (Lambeth) |
| Fison, Frederick William | Macdona, John Cumming | Stewart, Sir M. J. M'Taggart |
| Fitz Wygram, General Sir F. | MacIver, David (Liverpool) | Stirling-Maxwell, Sir J. M. |
| Flannery, Sir Fortescue | M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) | Stock, James Henry |
| Fletcher, Sir Henry | M'Killop, James | Thorburn, Walter |
| Flower, Ernest | Malcolm, Ian | Tomlinson, W. Edw. Murray |
| Folkestone, Viscount | Marks, Henry Hananel | Tritton, Charles Ernest |
| Garfit, William | Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire) | Vincent, Col. Sir C. E. H. |
| Gedge, Sydney | Milward, Colonel Victor | Walrond, Rt. Hn. Sir Wm. H. |
| Gibbons, J. Lloyd | Monk, Charles James | Warde, Lt.-Col. C. E. (Kent) |
| Giles, Charles Tyrrell | Moon, Edward Robert Pacy | Warr, Augustus Frederick |
| Goldsworthy, Major-General | More, Robt. Jasper (Shropsh.) | Webster, R. G. (St. Pancras) |
| Gordon, Hon. John Edward | Morgan, Hon. Fred. (Mon.) | Welby, Lieut.-Col. A. C E. |
| Goschen, George J. (Sussex) | Morrell, George Herbert | Wentworth, Bruce C. Vernon- |
| Goulding, Edward Alfred | Morrison, Walter | Wharton, Rt. Hon. J. Lloyd |
| Gourley, Sir. E. Temperley | Morton,ArthurH.A.(Deptf'd.) | Whiteley, H. (Ashton-und'-L.) |
| Graham, Henry Robert | Murray, Rt. Hn. A. G. (Bute) | Whitmore, Charles Algernon |
| Gray, Ernest (West Ham) | Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) | Willox, Sir John Archibald |
| Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsb'ry | Myers, William Henry | Wilson, J. W. (Worces'hr, N.) |
| Gretton, John | Newark, Viscount | Wodehouse, RtHnE.R. (Bath) |
| Gunter, Colonel | Nicholson, William Graham | Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm |
| Hall, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Nicol, Donald Ninian | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. S.- |
| Hanson, Sir Reginald | Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay | Wylie, Alexander |
| Hardy, Laurence | Palmer, Sir C. M. (Durham) | Wyndham-Quin, Major W.H. |
| Hare, Thomas Leigh | Parkes, Ebenezer | Wyvil, Marmaduke D'Arcy |
| Heath, James | Pease, H. Pike (Darlington) | Young, Com'and'r (Berks, E.) |
| Helder, Augustus | Percy, Earl | |
| Hickman, Sir Alfred | Pierpoint, Robert | TELLERS FOR THE NOES— |
| Hoare, Ed. Brodie(Hampstead | Pilkington, R.(Lancs.Newt'n) | Sir Blundell Maple and |
| Hoare, Samuel (Norwich) | Powell, Sir Francis Sharp | Captain Jessel. |
| Hobhouse, Henry | Priestley, Sir W. O. (Edinb.) |
§
Question again proposed—
That those words be there inserted.
§ Debate arising, and it being after halt-past Five of the clock, Mr. Speaker proceeded to interrupt the business.
1158
§
Whereupon Sir Blundell Maple rose in his place, and claimed to move—
That the Question be now put.
§
Question put—
That the Question be now put.
§ The House divided: Ayes, 185; Noes, 143. (Division List No. 191.)
1159| Butcher, John George | Gunter, Colonel | Percy, Earl |
| Campbell,Rt.Hn.A.J.(Glas'w) | Hall, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Pierpoint, Robert |
| Cavendish,V.C.W. (Derb's're) | Hanson, Sir Reginald | Pilkington, R. (Lancs. Newton) |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, E.) | Hardy, Laurence | Powell, Sir Francis Sharp |
| Clarke, Sir Edw. (Plymouth) | Hare, Thomas Leigh | Price, Robert John |
| Clough, Walter Owen | Heath, James | Priestley, Sir W. O. (Edin.) |
| Coddington, Sir William | Helder, Augustus | Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward |
| Coghill, Douglas Harry | Hickman, Sir Alfred | Purvis, Robert |
| Cohen, Benjamin Louis | Hoare, Edw. B. (Hampstead) | Renshaw, Charles Bine |
| Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Hoare, Samuel (Norwich) | Rentoul, James Alexander |
| Colston, Chas. E. H. Athole | Hobhouse, Henry | Round, James |
| Cooke, C. W. R. (Hereford) | Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry | Russell,Gen. F. S.(Cheltnham) |
| Corbett, A. Cameron (Gl'sg'w) | Howard, Joseph | Russell, T. W. (Tyrone) |
| Courtney, Rt. Hon. L. H. | Hozier, Hon. Jas. Henry Cecil | Rutherford, John |
| Cripps, Charles Alfred | Hubbard, Hon. Evelyn | Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert |
| Cross, Alexander (Glasgow) | Hutchinson,Capt.G. W. Grice- | Seely, Charles Hilton |
| Cross, Herbert S. (Bolton) | Jebb, Richard Claverhouse | Seton-Karr, Henry |
| Cruddas, William Donaldson | Johnston, William (Belfast) | Sharpe, William Edward T. |
| Dalbiac, Colonel Philip Hugh | Kenyon, James | Sidebotham, J. W. (Cheshire) |
| Davies, Sir H. D. (Chatham) | Kenyon-Slaney, Col. William | Sidebottom, W. (Derbyshire) |
| Denny, Colonel | Kimber, Henry | Simeon, Sir Barrington |
| Dixon-Hartland, Sir F. Dixon | King, Sir Henry Seymour | Smith, Jas. Parker (Lanarks.) |
| Donkin, Richard Sim | Knowles, Lees | Spencer, Ernest |
| Dorington, Sir John Edward | Labouchere, Henry | Stanley, E. Jas. (Somerset) |
| Doughty, George | Laurie, Lieut.-General | Stanley, Henry M. (Lambeth) |
| Doxford, William Theodore | Lawrence, Sir E. Durn'g-(Corn | Stewart, Sir M. J. M'Taggart |
| Drucker, A. | Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.) | Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M. |
| Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V. | Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie | Stock, James Henry |
| Dyke, Rt. Hn.Sir William Hart | Llewellyn, Evan H. (Somerset) | Thorburn, Walter |
| Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton | Llewelyn,SirDillwyn-(Sw'ns'a | Tomlinson, Wm. E. Murray |
| Elliot, Hon. A. Ralph D. | Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine | Tritton, Charles Ernest |
| Fergusson,Rt.Hn.SirJ.(Man.) | Long, Rt. Hn. W. (Liverpool) | Vincent,Col. Sir C. E. Howard |
| Field, Admiral (Eastbourne) | Lopes, Henry Yarde Buller | Walrond, Rt. Hn. Sir Wm. H. |
| Finch, George H. | Macdona, John Cumming | Warde, Lt.-Col. C. E. (Kent) |
| Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne | MacIver, David (Liverpool) | Warr, Augustus Frederick |
| Firbank, Joseph Thomas | M'Arthnr, Charles (Liverpool) | Webster, R. G. (St. Pancras) |
| Fisher, William Hayes | M'Killop, James | Welby, Lieut.-Col. A. C. E. |
| Fison, Frederick William | Malcolm, Ian | Wentworth, Bruce C. Vernon- |
| FitzWygram, General Sir F. | Marks, Henry Hananel | Wharton, Rt. Hn. John Lloyd |
| Flannery, Sir Fortescue | Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire) | Whiteley,H.(Ashton-under-L) |
| Fletcher, Sir Henry | Milward, Colonel Victor | Whitmore, Charles Algernon |
| Flower, Ernest | Monk, Charles James | Willox, Sir John Archibald |
| Folkestone, Viscount | Moon, Edward Robert Pacy | Wilson,J.W.(Worcestersh.,N.) |
| Garfit, William | More,Robt.Jasper(Shropshire) | Wodehouse, Rt. Hn.E.R.(Bath) |
| Gedge, Sydney | Morgan, Hon. F. (Monm'thsh. | Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm |
| Gibbons, J. Lloyd | Morrell, George Herbert | Wortley, Rt. Hon.C.B.Stuart- |
| Giles, Charles Tyrrell | Morton, A. H. A. (Deptford) | Wylie, Alexander |
| Goldsworthy, Major-General | Murray, Rt. Hon. A. G. (Bute) | Wyndham-Quin, Major W. H. |
| Gordon, Hon. John Edward | Murray, Col W. (Bath) | Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arey |
| Goschen, George J. (Sussex) | Myers, William Henry | Young,Commander (Berks, E.) |
| Goulding, Edward Alfred | Nicholson, William G. | |
| Graham, Henry Robert | Nicol, Donald Ninian | TELLERS FOR TILE AYES— |
| Gray, Ernest (West Ham) | Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay | Sir Blundell Maple and |
| Greene, H. D. (Shrewsbury) | Parkes, Ebenezer | Captain Jessel |
| Gretton, John | Pease, H. P. (Darlington) |
| NOES. | ||
| Abraham, William (Rhonnda) | Carvill, PatrickGeo.Hamilton | Duckworth, James |
| Allan, William (Gateshead) | Causton, Richard Knight | Dunn, Sir William |
| Allison, Robert Andrew | Cawley, Frederick | Evans Sam. T. (Glamorgan) |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Clancy, John Joseph | Evans, Sir F. H. (South'ton) |
| Baker, Sir John | Clark, Dr. G. B.(Caithness-sh.) | Farrell, J. P. (Cavan, W.) |
| Barlow, John Emmott | Colville, John | Fenwick, Charles |
| Barry, E. (Cork, S.) | Commins, Andrew | Ferguson, R. C. M. (Leith) |
| Bayley, Thomas (Derbyshire) | Crilly, Daniel | Ffrench, Peter |
| Billson, Alfred | Crombie, John William | Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond |
| Birrell, Augustine | Curran, T. B. (Donegal) | Flavin, Michael Joseph |
| Broadhurst, Henry | Dalziel, James Henry | Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.) |
| Brunner, Sir John Tomlinson | Davies, M. V. (Cardigan) | Gibney, James |
| Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn | Davitt, Michael | Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert J. |
| Burns, John | Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Goddard, Daniel Ford |
| Burt, Thomas | Dillon, John | Gold, Charles |
| Buxton, Sydney Charles | Donelan, Captain A. | Gourley, Sir Ed. Temperley |
| Caldwell, James | Doogan, P. C. | Gurdon, Sir Wm. Brampton |
§ Question put accordingly.
§ The House divided: Ayes, 171; Noes, 154. (Division List No. 192.)
| AYES. | ||
| Aird, John | Bailey, James (Walworth) | Bemrose, Sir H. H. |
| Allen,W.(Newc.-under-Lyme) | Baird, J. George Alexander | Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. |
| Allsopp, Hon. George | Baldwin, Alfred | Bigwood, James |
| Anstruther, H. T. | Banbury, Frederick George | Bill, Charles |
| Archdale, Edward Mervyn | Barry, Rt.Hon.A.H.S -(Hunts | Blakiston-Houston, Charles |
| Arnold, Alfred | Barton, Dunbar Plunket | Blundell, Colonel Henry |
| Arrol, Sir William | Beach,Rt.Hn.Sir M.H.(Bristol | Boulnois, Edmund |
| Bagot, Capt. J. FitzRoy | Begg, Ferdinand Faithfull | Brookfield, A. Montague |
| Butcher, John George | Gunter, Colonel | Percy, Earl |
| Campbell,Rt.Hn.A.J.(Glas'w) | Hall, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Pierpoint, Robert |
| Cavendish,V.C.W. (Derb's're) | Hanson, Sir Reginald | Pilkington, R. (Lancs. Newton) |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, E.) | Hardy, Laurence | Powell, Sir Francis Sharp |
| Clarke, Sir Edw. (Plymouth) | Hare, Thomas Leigh | Price, Robert John |
| Clough, Walter Owen | Heath, James | Priestley, Sir W. O. (Edin.) |
| Coddington, Sir William | Helder, Augustus | Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward |
| Coghill, Douglas Harry | Hickman, Sir Alfred | Purvis, Robert |
| Cohen, Benjamin Louis | Hoare, Edw. B. (Hampstead) | Renshaw, Charles Bine |
| Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Hoare, Samuel (Norwich) | Rentoul, James Alexander |
| Colston, Chas. E. H. Athole | Hobhouse, Henry | Round, James |
| Cooke, C. W. R. (Hereford) | Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry | Russell,Gen. F. S.(Cheltnham) |
| Corbett, A. Cameron (Gl'sg'w) | Howard, Joseph | Russell, T. W. (Tyrone) |
| Courtney, Rt. Hon. L. H. | Hozier, Hon. Jas. Henry Cecil | Rutherford, John |
| Cripps, Charles Alfred | Hubbard, Hon. Evelyn | Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert |
| Cross, Alexander (Glasgow) | Hutchinson,Capt.G. W. Grice- | Seely, Charles Hilton |
| Cross, Herbert S. (Bolton) | Jebb, Richard Claverhouse | Seton-Karr, Henry |
| Cruddas, William Donaldson | Johnston, William (Belfast) | Sharpe, William Edward T. |
| Dalbiac, Colonel Philip Hugh | Kenyon, James | Sidebotham, J. W. (Cheshire) |
| Davies, Sir H. D. (Chatham) | Kenyon-Slaney, Col. William | Sidebottom, W. (Derbyshire) |
| Denny, Colonel | Kimber, Henry | Simeon, Sir Barrington |
| Dixon-Hartland, Sir F. Dixon | King, Sir Henry Seymour | Smith, Jas. Parker (Lanarks.) |
| Donkin, Richard Sim | Knowles, Lees | Spencer, Ernest |
| Dorington, Sir John Edward | Labouchere, Henry | Stanley, E. Jas. (Somerset) |
| Doughty, George | Laurie, Lieut.-General | Stanley, Henry M. (Lambeth) |
| Doxford, William Theodore | Lawrence, Sir E. Durn'g-(Corn | Stewart, Sir M. J. M'Taggart |
| Drucker, A. | Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.) | Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M. |
| Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V. | Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie | Stock, James Henry |
| Dyke, Rt. Hn.Sir William Hart | Llewellyn, Evan H. (Somerset) | Thorburn, Walter |
| Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton | Llewelyn,SirDillwyn-(Sw'ns'a | Tomlinson, Wm. E. Murray |
| Elliot, Hon. A. Ralph D. | Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine | Tritton, Charles Ernest |
| Fergusson,Rt.Hn.SirJ.(Man.) | Long, Rt. Hn. W. (Liverpool) | Vincent,Col. Sir C. E. Howard |
| Field, Admiral (Eastbourne) | Lopes, Henry Yarde Buller | Walrond, Rt. Hn. Sir Wm. H. |
| Finch, George H. | Macdona, John Cumming | Warde, Lt.-Col. C. E. (Kent) |
| Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne | MacIver, David (Liverpool) | Warr, Augustus Frederick |
| Firbank, Joseph Thomas | M'Arthnr, Charles (Liverpool) | Webster, R. G. (St. Pancras) |
| Fisher, William Hayes | M'Killop, James | Welby, Lieut.-Col. A. C. E. |
| Fison, Frederick William | Malcolm, Ian | Wentworth, Bruce C. Vernon- |
| FitzWygram, General Sir F. | Marks, Henry Hananel | Wharton, Rt. Hn. John Lloyd |
| Flannery, Sir Fortescue | Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire) | Whiteley,H.(Ashton-under-L) |
| Fletcher, Sir Henry | Milward, Colonel Victor | Whitmore, Charles Algernon |
| Flower, Ernest | Monk, Charles James | Willox, Sir John Archibald |
| Folkestone, Viscount | Moon, Edward Robert Pacy | Wilson,J.W.(Worcestersh.,N.) |
| Garfit, William | More,Robt.Jasper(Shropshire) | Wodehouse, Rt. Hn.E.R.(Bath) |
| Gedge, Sydney | Morgan, Hon. F. (Monm'thsh. | Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm |
| Gibbons, J. Lloyd | Morrell, George Herbert | Wortley, Rt. Hon.C.B.Stuart- |
| Giles, Charles Tyrrell | Morton, A. H. A. (Deptford) | Wylie, Alexander |
| Goldsworthy, Major-General | Murray, Rt. Hon. A. G. (Bute) | Wyndham-Quin, Major W. H. |
| Gordon, Hon. John Edward | Murray, Col W. (Bath) | Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arey |
| Goschen, George J. (Sussex) | Myers, William Henry | Young,Commander (Berks, E.) |
| Goulding, Edward Alfred | Nicholson, William G. | |
| Graham, Henry Robert | Nicol, Donald Ninian | TELLERS FOR TILE AYES— |
| Gray, Ernest (West Ham) | Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay | Sir Blundell Maple and |
| Greene, H. D. (Shrewsbury) | Parkes, Ebenezer | Captain Jessel |
| Gretton, John | Pease, H. P. (Darlington) | |
| NOES. | ||
| Abraham, William (Rhonnda) | Carvill, PatrickGeo.Hamilton | Duckworth, James |
| Allan, William (Gateshead) | Causton, Richard Knight | Dunn, Sir William |
| Allison, Robert Andrew | Cawley, Frederick | Evans Sam. T. (Glamorgan) |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Clancy, John Joseph | Evans, Sir F. H. (South'ton) |
| Baker, Sir John | Clark, Dr. G. B.(Caithness-sh.) | Farrell, J. P. (Cavan, W.) |
| Barlow, John Emmott | Colville, John | Fenwick, Charles |
| Barry, E. (Cork, S.) | Commins, Andrew | Ferguson, R. C. M. (Leith) |
| Bayley, Thomas (Derbyshire) | Crilly, Daniel | Ffrench, Peter |
| Billson, Alfred | Crombie, John William | Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond |
| Birrell, Augustine | Curran, T. B. (Donegal) | Flavin, Michael Joseph |
| Broadhurst, Henry | Dalziel, James Henry | Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.) |
| Brunner, Sir John Tomlinson | Davies, M. V. (Cardigan) | Gibney, James |
| Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn | Davitt, Michael | Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert J. |
| Burns, John | Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Goddard, Daniel Ford |
| Burt, Thomas | Dillon, John | Gold, Charles |
| Buxton, Sydney Charles | Donelan, Captain A. | Gourley, Sir Ed. Temperley |
| Caldwell, James | Doogan, P. C. | Gurdon, Sir Wm. Brampton |
| Hammond, John (Carlow) | MacNeill, John Gordon Swift | Schwann, Charles E. |
| Harcourt, Rt. H. Sir William | M'Arthur, William (Corn.) | Sinclair, Capt. J. (Forfarshire |
| Harwood, George | M'Ewan, William | Smith, Samuel (Flint) |
| Hayden, John Patrick | M'Ghee, Richard | Spicer, Albert |
| Hayne, Rt. Hon. Chas. Seale- | M'Kenna, Reginald | Steadman, William Charles |
| Hazell, Walter | M'Leod, John | Stevenson, Francis S. |
| Heley, Thos. J. (Wexford) | Maddison, Fred. | Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath) |
| Healy, Timothy M. (N.Louth) | Maden, John Henry | Sullivan, T. D. (Donegal, W.) |
| Hedderwick, Thos. Charles H. | Mellor, Rt. Hn. J. W.(Yorks.) | Tennant, Harold John |
| Hemphill, Rt. Hon. Chas. H. | Molloy, Bernard Charles | Thomas, A. (Carmarthen, E.) |
| Holland, W. H. (York, W. R.) | Morgan,J. Lloyd(Carmarthen) | Thomas, A. (Glamorgan, E.) |
| Horniman, Frederick John | Morgan, W. P. (Merthyr) | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Hutton, Alfred E. (Morley) | Morley, Charles (Breconshire) | Tully, Jasper |
| Jacoby, James Alfred | Morris, Samuel | Wallace, Robert |
| Johnson-Ferguson, Jabez E. | Morton, Edw. J. C. (Devonp't | Walton, Joseph (Barnsley) |
| Joicey, Sir James | Moss, Samuel | Wedderburn, Sir William |
| Jones, William (Carnarvon) | Norton, Capt. Cecil William | Weir, James Galloway |
| Jordan, Jeremiah | O'Brien, James F. X. (Cork) | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer |
| Kay-Shuttleworth,RtHn SirU | O'Connor, J. (Wicklow, W.) | Williams, John C. (Notts) |
| Kearley, Hudson E. | Oldroyd, Mark | Wilson, Henry J.(York,W.R.) |
| Kilbride, Denis | Palmer, Sir C. M. (Durham) | Wilson, John (Durham, Mid.) |
| Kinloch, Sir J. Geoge Smyth | Paulton, James Mellor | Wilson, John (Govan) |
| Kitson, Sir James | Perks, Robert William | Wilson,Jos.H.(Middlesbrough |
| Langley, Batty | Pickark, Benjamin | Woodhouse, SirJ.T.(Hud'sfield |
| Lawson, Sir W. (Cumb'land) | Power, Patrick Joseph | Woods, Samuel |
| Leng, Sir John | Priestley, Briggs (Yorks) | Young, Samuel (Cavan, East) |
| Leuty, Thomas Richmond | Provand, Andrew Dryburgh | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Lewis, John Herbert | Reckitt, Harold James | |
| Lloyd-George, David | Richardson, J. (Durham, S.E.) | TELLERS FOR THE NOES— |
| Lough, Thomas | Rickett, J. Compton | Mr. Jonathan Samnel and |
| Lyell, Sir Leonard | Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) | Mr. Scott. |
| Macaleese, Daniel | Roche, John (East Galway) |
| AYES. | ||
| Aird, John | Davies, Sir H. D. (Chatham) | Hare, Thomas Leigh |
| Allsopp, Hon. George | Denny, Colonel | Heath, James |
| Anstruther, H. T. | Dixon-Hartland, Sir F. Dixon | Helder, Augustus |
| Archdale, Edward Mervyn | Donkin, Richard Sim | Hickman, Sir Alfred |
| Arnold, Alfred | Dorington, Sir John Edward | Hoare, E. Brodie (Hampstead) |
| Arrol, Sir William | Doughty, George | Hoare, Samuel (Norwich) |
| Bagot, Capt. Jos'line FitzRoy | Doxford, William Theodore | Hobhouse, Henry |
| Bailey, James (Walworth) | Drucker, A. | Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry |
| Baldwin, Alfred | Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V. | Howard, Joseph |
| Banbury, Frederick George | Dyke, Ht. Hon. Sir W. Hart | Hozier, Hon. James H. Cecil |
| Barry,Rt.Hn.A.H.Smith-(Hts | Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton | Hubbard, Hon. Evelyn |
| Barton, Dunbar Plunket | Elliot, Hon. A. R. Douglas | Jebb, Richard Claverhouse |
| Beach,Rt.Hn.SirM. H.(Bristol | Fergusson, Rt. H.Sir.J.(Man.) | Johnson-Ferguson, Jabez E. |
| Begg, Ferdinand Faithfull | Field, Admiral (Eastbourne) | Kenyon, James |
| Bemrose, Sir Henry Howe | Finch, George H. | Kenyon-Slaney, Col. William |
| Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. | Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne | King, Sir Henry Seymour |
| Bigwood, James | Firbank, Joseph Thomas | Knowles, Lees |
| Blakiston-Houston, John | Fisher, William Hayes | Laurie, Lieut.-General |
| Blundell, Colonel Henry | Fison, Frederick William | Lawrence,SirE.Durning-(Corn |
| Boulnois, Edmund | FitzWygram, General Sir F. | Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.) |
| Brookfield, A. Montagu | Flannery, Sir Fortescue | Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie |
| Butcher, John George | Fletcher, Sir Henry | Llewellyn, Evan H. (Somerset) |
| Campbell, Rt. Hn. J. A.(Glas.) | Flower, Ernest | Llewelyn,SirDillwyn-(Sw'sea) |
| Cavendish, V. C. W.(Derbysh.) | Folkestone, Viscount | Loder, Rt. Hon. W. Erskine |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, E.) | Garfit, William | Long,Rt.Hn.Walter(Liv'pool) |
| Clarke, Sir E. (Plymouth) | Gibbons, J. Lloyd | Lopes, Henry Yarde Buller) |
| Clough, Walter Owen | Giles, Charles Tyrrell | Macdona, John Cumming |
| Coddington, Sir William | Goldsworthy, Major-General | MacIver, David (Liverpool) |
| Coghill, Douglas Harry | Gordon, Hon. John Edward | Maclure, Sir John William |
| Cohen, Benjamin Louis | Goschen, George J. (Sussex) | M'Arthur, Chas. (Liverpool) |
| Collings, Right Hon. Jesse | Graham, Henry Robert | M'Killop, James |
| Colston, Chas. E. H. Athole | Gray, Ernest (West Ham) | Marks, Henry Hananel |
| Corbett, A. C. (Glasgow) | Greene, Hy. D. (Shrewsbury) | Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire) |
| Cripps, Charles Alfred | Gretton, John | Milward, Colonel Victor |
| Cross, Alexander (Glasgow) | Gunter, Colonel | Monk, Charles James |
| Cross, H. Shepherd (Bolton) | Hall, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Moon, Edward Robert Pacy |
| Cruddas, William Donaldson | Hanson, Sir Reginald | More, R. Jasper (Shropshire) |
| Dalbiac, Colonel Philip Hugh | Hardy, Laurence | Morgan, Hon. F. Monm'thsh) |
| Morton, A. H. A. (Deptford) | Russell, T. W. (Tyrone) | Walrond, Rt. Hn. Sir W. H. |
| Murray, Rt. Hon. A.G. (Bute) | Rutherford, John | Warde, Lt.-Col. C. E. (Kent) |
| Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath | Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert | Warr, Augustus Frederick |
| Myers, William Henry | Seton-Karr, Henry | Webster, R. G. (St. Pancras) |
| Nicholson, William Graham | Sharpe, William Edward T. | Welby, Lieut.-Col. A. C. E. |
| Nicol, Donald Ninian | Sidebotham, J. W. (Cheshire) | Wentworth, B. C. Vernon- |
| Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay | Sidebottom, Wm. (Derbysh) | Wharton, Rt. Hn. J. Lloyd |
| Parkes, Ebenezer | Simeon, Sir Barrington | Whiteley, H. (Ashton-u.-L.) |
| Percy, Earl | Smith, Jas. Parker (Lanarks) | Whitmore, Charles Algernon |
| Pierpoint, Robert | Spencer, Ernest | Willox, Sir John Archibald |
| Pilkington, R. (Lancs,Newton | Stanley, Ed. Jas. (Somerset) | Wodehouse, Rt.Hn.E.R.(Bath |
| Powell, Sir Francis Sharp | Stanley, Henry M. (Lambeth) | Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm |
| Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. (Edin.) | Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M. | Wylie, Alexander |
| Purvis, Robert Edward | Stock, James Henry | Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy |
| Rasch, Major Frederic Carne | Thornburn, Walter | Young, Commander (Berks,E) |
| Renshaw, Charles Bine | Tomlinson, W. Ed. Murray | TELLERS FOR THE AYES— |
| Rentoul, James Alexander | Tritton, Charles Ernest | Sir Blundell Maple and |
| Russell, Gen. F.S. (Chelt'n'm) | Vincent Col. Sir. C. E. H. | Captain Jessel. |
| NOES | ||
| Abraham, Wm. (Rhondda) | Gurdon, Sir Wm. Brampton | O'Brien, James F. X. (Cork) |
| Allan, William (Gateshead) | Hammond, John (Carlow) | O'Connor,James(Wicklow,W. |
| Allen, W. (Newc.-und.-Lyme) | Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Sir Wm. | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) |
| Allison, Robert Andrew | Harwood, George | Oldroyd, Mark |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Hayden, John Patrick | Palmer, Sir C. M. (Durham) |
| Baker, Sir John | Hayne, Rt. Hon. Ch. Seale- | Paulton, James Mellor |
| Barlow, John Emmott | Hazell, Walter | Pease, H. Pike (Darlington) |
| Barry, E. (Cork, S.) | Healy, Thomas J. (Wexford) | Perks, Robert William |
| Bayley, Thomas (Derbyshire) | Healy, Timothy M. (N. Louth) | Pickard, Benjamin |
| Billson, Alfred | Hedderwick, Thomas C. H. | Power, Patrick Joseph |
| Birrell, Augustine | Hemphill, Ht. Hon. Chas. H. | Price, Robert John |
| Broadhurst, Henry | Holland, W. H. (York, W. R.) | Priestley, Briggs (Yorks.) |
| Brunner, Sir John Tomlinson | Horniman, Frederick John | Provand, Andrew Dryburgh |
| Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn | Hutton, Alfred E. (Morley) | Rickett, Harold James |
| Burt, Thomas. | Jacoby, James Alfred | Richardson, J. (Durham,S.E. |
| Buxton, Sydney Charles | Johnson-Ferguson, Jabez. E. | Reckitt, J. Compton |
| Caldwell, James | Joicey, Sir James | Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) |
| Carvill, P. Geo. Hamilton | Jones, William (Carnarvons.) | Roche, John (East Galway) |
| Causton, Richard Knight | Jordan, Jeremiah | Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees) |
| Cawley, Frederick | Kay-ShuttleworthRtHnSirU. | Schwann, Charles E. |
| Clancy, John Joseph | Kearley, Hudson, E. | Scott, C. Prestwich (Leigh) |
| Clark, Dr. G. B. (Caithness-sh) | Kilbride, Denis | Seely, Charles Hilton |
| Colville, John | Kinloch, Sir John George S. | Sinclair, Capt J (Forfarshire) |
| Commins, Andrew | Kitson, Sir James | Smith, Samuel (Flint) |
| Cooke, C. W. Rad. (Herefd) | Labouchere, Henry | Spicer, Albert |
| Crombie, John William | Langley, Batty | Steadman, William Charles |
| Curran, Thomas B. (Donegal) | Lawson, Sir W. (Cumberland) | Stevenson, Francis S. |
| Dalziel, James Henry | Leng, Sir John | Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath) |
| Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardig'n | Leuty, Thomas Richmond | Sullivan, T. D. (Donegal, W.) |
| Davitt, Michael | Lewis, John Herbert | Tennant, Harold John |
| Dillon, John | Lough, Thomas | Thomas, A. (Carmarthen, E.) |
| Donelan, Captain A. | Lyell, Sir Leonard | Thomas,Alfred (Glamorgan,E. |
| Doogan, P. C. | Macaleese, Daniel | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Duckworth, James | MacNeill, John Gordon Swift | Tully, Jasper |
| Dunn, Sir William | M'Arthur, William (Cornwall) | Wallace, Robert |
| Evans, Samuel T. (Glamorg'n) | M'wan, William | Walton, Joseph (Barnsley) |
| Evans, Sir F. H. (S'thampton) | M'Ghee, Richard | Wedderburn, Sir William |
| Farrell, James P. (Cavan,W.) | M'Kenna, Reginald | Weir, James Galloway |
| Fenwick, Charles | M'Leod, John | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer |
| Ferguson, R. C. Munro (Leith) | Maddison, Fred. | Williams, John Carvell (Notts) |
| Ffrench, Peter | Maden, John Henry | Wilson,Henry J. (York, W.R.) |
| Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond | Malcom, Ian | Wilson, John (Durham, Mid.) |
| Flavin, Michael Joseph | Mellor, Rt. Hn. J. W. (Yorks) | Wilson, John (Govan) |
| Foster, Sir W. (Derby Co.) | Molloy, Bernard Charles | Wilson, J. W. (Worcester, N.) |
| Fox, Dr. Joseph Francis | Morgan, J. L. (Carmarthen) | Wilson, Jos. H. (Middlesbro') |
| Ledge, Sydney | Morgan, W P. (Merthyr) | Woodhouse, Sir J. T. (H'dsfld.) |
| Gibney, James | Morley, Charles (Breconshire) | Woods, Samuel |
| Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert J. | Morrell, George Herbert | Young, Samuel (Cavan, East) |
| Goddard, Daniel Ford | Morris, Samuel | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Gold, Charles | Morton, E. J. C. (Devonport) | TELLERS FOR THE NOES— |
| Goulding, Edward Alfred | Moss, Samuel | Sir Charles Dilke and Mr. |
| Gourley, Sir E. Temperley | Norton, Captain C. William | Lloyd-George. |
§ Further proceeding on-consideration, as amended, adjourned till To-morrow.
§ And, it being Six of the clock, Mr. Speaker adjourned the House without Question put: Adjourned at Six o'clock.