§ Fred Maddison, Esquire, for Borough of Sheffield (Brightside Division).
§ Joseph Richardson, Esquire, for County of Durham (South Eastern Division).
§ THE SPEAKERread the Sessional Orders.
MR. JAMES LOWTHER (Thanet)I propose, Sir, to suggest to the House that it will be well to omit from the Sessional Order, which you have just read, those words which refer exclusively to a Peer of the realm. The portion of the Resolution which relates to a Lord-Lieutenant is obviously a distinct question from that affecting a Peer alone. I do not desire to express any opinion which would prejudge what the view of the House may be as to the retention of those words which relate to Lords-Lieutenant exclusively; that the House must decide for itself. The Motion I propose to make is that all the words be left out from after the words "United Kingdom" down to the word "also" which precedes the words "Lords-Lieutenant." I said there was a difference between the portion of the Resolution which refers to Peers and that which refers only to a Lord-Lieutenant. A Lord-Lieutenant is appointed by the executive of the day, and it is within the power of this House, by an Address to the Crown or otherwise, to act up to any views it may entertain with regard to the action of Peer Members. History has shown, the experience of two centuries has shown, that this House is absolutely powerless to deal with Peers. The Resolution is, as it has been described by a high authority, a 47 meaningless farce and sham, and I would venture to suggest to the House that it would do well to omit these words. As to precedents bearing on this case, I may say that there are numerous precedents which show one and all the same result, namely, the absolute impotence of this House to give effect to this high-sounding Order, which you, Sir, have just read from the Chair. I put to the House that to perpetuate a meaningless farce, a Resolution which has no power and cannot be carried into effect, is to lower the dignity of this House. Amongst cases I may quote are many which go back a long time. I will only glance at one or two during the past few years, which are sufficient to support my case. I would point out in 1847 a case brought forward in this House of a Peer, who happened also to be a Lord-Lieutenant, but even, although it was admitted that he took part in an election, this House, acting upon the advice of the Attorney-General of the day, afterwards Lord Chief Justice Jervis, took no action whatever. To come to more recent times, I remember hearing in 1868 Mr. Disraeli inform the House that Lord Hardwicke, who had personally presided over a meeting for the registration of his political friends in his own county was acting within his rights, and that he proposed to take no action, and no action was taken. A few years later the case of Lord Cadogan was brought forward. On that occasion the right hon. Gentleman, the Member for West Monmouth, moved the Previous Question. Lord Cadogan had avowedly taken an active part in a meeting for the furtherance of a political organisation. To take a more recent instance, I might refer to the case of Lord Rosebery, who was shown to have taken part in a political meeting which knocked over the only shred of force which it was supposed was ever given to this meaningless Resolution, as the superstition appeared to prevail that, although Peers might take an active part in promoting the candidature of an intending Member of this House, although they might preside at a meeting and make speeches before the Writs issued, they had no right to make a speech in any constituency after the issue of a Writ. But in 48 the case in point, Lord Rosebery addressed a meeting which, although not held within the precise boundaries of the actual borough where the contest was proceeding was, I believe, something like a hundred yards on the other side of the road. No notice was taken of Lord Rosebery's action. I do not find any fault with that action, which, I think, met with the general approbation of public opinion, but I think it shows once more how meaningless and absurd this Resolution has been. There is the case of the Duke of Devonshire in respect of a speech delivered at Darlington. It was delivered on the evening of the day on which the writs had been issued to the returning officer. These instances only show that the last remnant of the operative power of this resolution has gone. I ask the House to consider whether that being so, this Resolution is not meaningless and absurd. We have no means by which it can be enforced, even if we arrived at the conclusion that it would be wise to enforce it. I venture to suggest that the House would do well to omit these words which have been found to have no meaning, and to let the Resolution stand in a modified form. I shall not detain the House with quotations. I have referred to the action of the Member for West Monmouth, who distinctly stated that the House had no power to act even if it wished. Lord James, who was then a Member of this House, described this Resolution as absurd and meaningless, and went on to say that he hoped at an early date it would be repealed, and that he objected to a Resolution to which the House had no power to give effect. In 1894 my right hon. Friend the First Lord of the Treasury said that what had preceded in debate had "now convinced us finally that the Sessional Order we pass every time we assemble must be acknowledged to be a farce. Many of us have long suspected it would not hold water; now the thing is conclusively demonstrated." I beg to move the omission of the words I have referred to.
§ SIR WILFRID LAWSON (Cockermouth)I second the Motion of my hon. Friend. I quite agree with what my hon. Friend has said. This Motion is a sham, and we have quite enough shams without it. I would suggest that 49 we should divide at once, and those who are against the sham will support the Amendment, and those who support the sham will vote against it.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOUR (Manchester, East)My right hon. Friend, who moved this Motion, quoted from something I said in 1894. Perhaps it would not be proper if I did not say one word for myself on the subject. It is quite true that the House has no power to enforce this Sessional Order, and any Peer who has abused this sessional order may be assured that no ill consequences can happen to him. But it is also true that this Sessional Order as passed year after year does embody a tradition to which the vast majority of Peers readily give their assent. It is rare for any Peer to interfere in an election after the Writ has been moved. It is manifest with the present balance of opinion among Peers that the Party on this side of the House will be the gainers by any change. Do not let the House deceive itself, there will be a change if this Amendment is passed.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURThe result of accepting the Motion of my right hon. Friend, is that it would be taken, and justly taken, as a public declaration on our part not only that we cannot enforce our Resolution against the Peers, but that we positively invited them, if they desired, to take part in the elections. I have no objection to such a change, but I do not think that we are the parties to make it. It would clearly be an electoral gain to us, for nine-tenths of the House of Lords belong to the Party to which we belong. The result clearly will be that we, and not the gentlemen sitting opposite, will gain any advantage that is to be gained from a change in the practice. Under these circumstances, unless I am invited by the Leader of the Opposition, I shall do what I did last year, namely, support the Sessional Order, which has habit and tradition to support it.
§ The Speaker put the Amendment.
§ The House divided:—Ayes 319; Noes 100.
53| AYES. | ||
| Ambrose, Wm. (Middlesex) | Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- | Compton, Lord Alwyne |
| Arnold-Forster, Hugh O. | Boulnois, Edmund | Cook, F. Lucas (Lambeth) |
| Arrol, Sir William | Bowles, Capt. H. F. (Mdlx.) | Corbett, A. Cameron (Glas.) |
| Ascroft, Robert | Brigg, John | Courtney, Rt. Hon. L. H. |
| Asher, Alexander | Broderick, Rt. Hon. St. J. | Cripps, Charles Alfred |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Brookfield, A. Montagu | Curran, Thos. B. (Donegal) |
| Baden-Powell, Sir G. Smyth | Brown, Alexander H. | Curzon, RtHnG. N. (Lancs. S. W. |
| Bagot, Capt. J. FitzRoy | Bryce, Rt. Hon. James | Curzon, Viscount (Bucks) |
| Bailey, James (Walworth) | Burt, Thomas | Dalbiac, Major Philip Hugh |
| Baillie, J. E. B. (Inverness) | Butcher, John George | Dalrymple, Sir Charles |
| Baird, Jno. Geo. Alexander | Buxton, Sidney Charles | Dane, Richard M. |
| Baker, Sir John | Caldwell, James | Davies, Horatio D. (Chathm) |
| Balcarres, Lord | Cameron, Robert (Durham) | Dickson-Poynder, Sir J. P. |
| Baldwin, Alfred | Campbell, J. H. M. (Dublin) | Digby, J. K. D. Wingfield- |
| Balfour, Rt Hn A. J. (Manch'r) | Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. | Dixon-Hartland, Sir F. D. |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch'r) | Carew, James Laurence | Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. Gerald (Leeds) | Carlile, William Walter | Douglas-Pennant, Hon. E. S. |
| Banbury, Frederick George | Causton, Richard Knight | Drage, Geoffrey |
| Banes, Major George Edward | Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lancs.) | Drucker, A. |
| Barnes, Frederic Gorell | Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh.) | Duckworth, James |
| Barry, Francis T. (Windsor) | Cawley, Frederick | Dunn, Sir William |
| Barry, Francis T. (Windsor) | Cecil, Lord Hugh | Edwardes, Gen. Sir J. B. |
| Barton, Dunbar Plunket | Chaloner, Capt. R. G. W. | Engledew, Charles John |
| Bathurst, Hon. Allen Ben. | Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Bir.) | Evershed, Sydney |
| Bayley, Thos. (Derbyshire) | Chamberlain, J. A. (Worc'r) | Fardell, Sir T. George |
| Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Bris.) | Channing, Francis Allston | Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Ed. |
| Beach, W. W. B. (Hants) | Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry | Fergusson, Rt. Hn. Sir J. (Man.) |
| Begg, Ferdinand Faithful | Charrington, Spencer | Ffrench, Peter |
| Bemrose, Sir Henry Howe | Chelsea, Viscount | Field, William (Dublin) |
| Beresford, Lord Charles | Clarke, Sir Ed. (Plymouth) | Finch, George H. |
| Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. | Clough, Walter Owen | Finlay, Sir R. Bannatyne |
| Biddulph, Michael | Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. | Firbank, Joseph Thomas |
| Billson, Alfred | Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Fisher, William Hayes |
| Blundell, Colonel Henry | Colston, Chas. Ed. H. Athole | Fison, Frederick William |
| Bond, Edward | Colville, John | FitzGerald, Sir R. U. P. |
| Flannery, Fortescue | Leuty, Thomas Richmond | Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye |
| Fletcher, Sir Henry | Lewis, John Herbert | Round, James |
| Forwood, Rt. Hon. Sir A. B. | Llewelyn, Sir D. (Swansea) | Royds, Clement Molyneux |
| Foster, Colonel (Lancaster) | Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R. | Russell, Gen. F. S. (Cheltnh.) |
| Foster, Sir W. (Derby Co.) | Loder, Gerald Walter E. | Russell, T. W. (Tyrone) |
| Fowler, Rt. Hn. Sir H. (Wol'tn) | Long, Col. C. W. (Evesham) | Samuel, Harry S. (Limehse.) |
| Garfit, William | Long, Rt. Hon. W. (Liverpl) | Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees) |
| Gedge, Sydney | Lopes, Henry Yarde Buller | Savory, Sir Joseph |
| Gibney, James | Lough, Thomas | Schwann, Charles E. |
| Gilliat, John Saunders | Loyd, Archie Kirkman | Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) |
| Goddard, Daniel Ford | Lubbock, Rt. Hon. Sir John | Seely, Charles Hilton |
| Godson, Augustus Frederick | Lucas-Shadwell, William | Sharpe, William Edward T. |
| Gold, Charles. | Lyttelton, Hon. Alfred | Shaw, Chas. Ed. (Stafford) |
| Goldsworthy, Major-Gen. | MacAleese, Daniel | Shaw, Thomas (Hawick B.) |
| Gordon, Hon. John Edward | Macartney, W. G. Ellison | Simeon, Sir Barrington |
| Goulding, Edward Alfred | Macdona, John Gumming | Sinclair, Louis (Romford) |
| Gray, Ernest (West Ham) | Maclean, James Mackenzie | Skewes-Cox, Thomas |
| Green, W. D. (Wednesbury) | M'Arthur, Chas. (Liverpool) | Smith, Abel (Herts) |
| Gretton, John | M'Donald, Dr. M. A. (Qn's C.) | Smith, Abel H. (Christchurch) |
| Greville, Captain | M'Ewan, William | Smith, Jas. Parker (Lanarks.) |
| Griffith, Ellis J. | Maddison, Fred. | Smith, Samuel (Flint) |
| Gull, Sir Cameron | Malcolm, Ian | Smith, Hn. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Hamilton, Rt. Hon. Lord G. | Marks, Henry Hananel | Spencer, Ernest |
| Hammond, John (Carlow) | Martin, Richard Biddulph | Spicer, Albert |
| Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Rbt. W. | Mellor, Col. (Lancashire) | Stanley, Lord (Lancs.) |
| Hanson, Sir Reginald | Melville, Beresford Valentine | Stanley, Ed. Jas. (Somerset) |
| Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Sir Wm. | Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand | Stevenson, Francis S. |
| Hare, Thomas Leigh | Meysey-Thompson, Sir H. M. | Stewart, Sir Mark J. M'Taggart |
| Hayden, John Patrick | Milner, Sir Fredk. George | Stirling-Maxwell, Sir Jno. M. |
| Hayne, Rt. Hn. Chas. Seale- | Milward, Colonel Victor | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
| Hazell, Walter | Monckton, Edward Philip | Strachey, Edward |
| Healy, Maurice (Cork) | Montagu, Hon. J. Scott (Hants.) | Strauss, Arthur |
| Hedderwick, Thos. Chas. H. | Moon, Ed. Robert Pacy | Stuart, James (Shoreditch) |
| Hemphill, Rt. Hon. Chas. H. | More, Robert Jasper | Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) |
| Hermon-Hodge, Rbt. Trotter | Morley, Rt. Hn. Jno. (Montr'se) | Taylor, Francis |
| Hill, Rt. Hn. Lord Arth. (Down) | Morrell, George Herbert | Tennant, Harold John |
| Hill, Rt. Hn. A. Staveley (Staffs. | Morton, Arthur H. A. (Deptf'd) | Thomas, David Alf. (Merthyr) |
| Hoare, Ed. Brodie (Hampst'd) | Moss, Samuel | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Hoare, Samuel (Norwich) | Mowbray, Rt. Hon. Sir John | Tomlinson, Wm. Ed. Murray |
| Hogan, James Francis | Muntz, Philip A. | Tritton, Charles Ernest |
| Holland, Hon. Lionel Raleigh | Murray, Rt Hn A. Grah'm (Bute) | Usborne, Thomas |
| Horniman, Frederick John | Murray, Chas. J. (Coventry) | Wallace, Robert (Edinburgh) |
| Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry | Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) | Walton, Jno. Lawson (Leeds, S. |
| Houston, R. P. | Myers, William Henry | Walton, Joseph (Barnsley) |
| Howard, Joseph | Newdigate, Francis Alexander | Wanklyn, James Leslie |
| Howell, William Tudor | Nicholson, William Graham | Warkworth, Lord |
| Hozier, Hon. Jas. Henry Cecil | Nicol, Donald Ninian | Warr, Augustus Frederick |
| Hudson, George Bickersteth | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | Wayman, Thomas |
| Hutton, Alfred E. (Morley) | O'Connor, Jas. (Wicklow, W.) | Webster, R. G. (St. Pancras) |
| Isaacson, Fredk. Wootton | O'Kelly, James | Welby, Lieut.-Col. A. C. E. |
| Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick | Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay | Wentworth, Bruce C. Vernon- |
| Jenkins, Sir John Jones | Parkes, Ebenezer | Whitmore, Charles Algernon |
| Johnson-Ferguson, Jabez. Ed. | Parnell, John Howard | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer |
| Johnston, William (Belfast) | Paulton, James Mellor | Williams, Col. R. (Dorset) |
| Johnstone, John H. (Sussex) | Pease, Jos. A. (Northumb.) | Williams, J. Carvell (Notts) |
| Kay-Shuttleworth, Rt Hn Sir U. | Pease, Sir Jos. W. (Durham) | Williams, Jos. Powell- (Birm. |
| Kennaway, Rt. Hon. Sir Jno. H. | Penn, John | Willox, Sir John Archibald |
| Kenrick, William | Pickersgill, Edward Hare | Wilson, Fredk. W. (Norfolk) |
| Kenyon, James | Pirie, Captain Duncan | Wilson, Hy. J. (York, W. R.) |
| Kimber, Henry | Plunkett, Hon. Horace C. | Wilson, John (Falkirk) |
| King, Sir Henry Seymour | Powell, Sir Francis Sharp | Wilson, John (Govan) |
| Knowles, Lees | Price, Robert John | Woodall, William |
| Knox, Edmd. Francis Vesey | Purvis, Robert | Wortley Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
| Lafone, Alfred | Pym, C. Guy | Wyndham, George |
| Lambert, George | Rankin, James | Wyndham-Quin, Maj. W. H. |
| Langley, Batty | Redmond, Jno. E. (Waterford) | Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy |
| Lawrence, Sir E. (Cornwall) | Redmond, William (Clare) | Young, Samuel |
| Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpl.) | Rentoul, James Alexander | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Lawson, John Grant (Yorks) | Richardson, J. (Durham) | |
| Lea, Sir T. (Londonderry) | Ridley, Rt. Hon. Sir M. W. | TELLERS FOR THE AYES— |
| Lecky, Rt. Hon. W. E. H. | Ritchie, Rt. Hon. Chas. T. | Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther. |
| Leigh-Bennett, Henry C. | Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) | |
| Leng, Sir John | Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.) |
| NOES. | ||
| Allan, Wm. (Gateshead) | Farquharson, Dr. Robert | Molloy, Bernard Charles |
| Allen, W. (Newc.-under-Lyme) | Farrell, Thomas J. (Kerry, S.) | Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen |
| Allhusen, Augustus Hy. Eden | Flavin, Michael Joseph | Morris, Samuel |
| Ambrose, Robt. (Mayo, W.) | Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk) | Murnaghan, George |
| Asquith, Rt. Hon. Herbt. H. | Galloway, Wm. Johnson | O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary) |
| Atherley-Jones, L. | Gibbs, Hn. A. G. H. (C. of Lond.) | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) |
| Austin, M. (Limerick, W.) | Gilhooly, James | O'Malley, William |
| Bartley, George C. T. | Gourley, Sir Ed. Temperley | Pease, Alfred E. (Cleveland) |
| Beckett, Ernest William | Grey, Sir Edward (Berwick) | Perks, Robert William |
| Birrell, Augustine | Haldane, Richard Burdon | Power, Patrick Joseph |
| Blake, Edward | Halsey, Thomas Frederick | Reid, Sir Robert T. |
| Bowles, T. Gibs'n (King's Lynn) | Heath, James | Robertson, Edmund (Dundee) |
| Burns, John | Jacoby, James Alfred | Roche, Hon. Jas. (E. Kerry) |
| Cameron, Sir Chas. (Glasgow) | Joicey, Sir James | Roche, John (East Galway) |
| Cohen, Benjam Louis | Jones, Dvd. Brynmor (Swansea | Saunderson, Col. Ed. James |
| Collery, Bernard | Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire) | Scott, Chas. Prestwich (Leigh) |
| Condon, Thomas Joseph | Kearley, Hudson E. | Sheehy, David |
| Crean, Eugene | Kinloch, Sir Jno. Geo. Smyth | Souttar, Robinson |
| Crilly, Daniel | Labouchere, Henry | Stanhope, Hon. Philip J. |
| Currie, Sir Donald | Laurie, Lieut.-General | Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath) |
| Daly, James | Legh, Hon. Thos. W. (Lanc.) | Thomas, Alf. (Glamorgan, E.) |
| Dalziel, James Henry | Lloyd-George, David | Tollemache, Henry James |
| Davenport, W. Bromley- | Logan, John William | Tully, Jasper |
| Davies, M. Vaughan (Crdgn.) | Luttrell, Hugh Fownes | Ure, Alexander |
| Denny, Colonel | Lyell, Sir Leonard | Valentia, Viscount |
| Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Maclure, Sir John William | Vincent, Col. Sir C. E. Howard |
| Dillon, John | MacNeill, Jno. Gordon Swift | Warner, Thos. Courtenay T. |
| Donelan, Captain A. | M'Arthur, Wm. (Cornwall) | Wedderburn, Sir William |
| Doogan, P. C. | M'Dermott, Patrick | Woods, Samuel |
| Dorington, Sir John Edward | M'Ghee, Richard | Younger, William |
| Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V. | M'Iver, Sir Lewis | |
| Ellis, John Edward (Notts.) | M'Kenna, Reginald | TELLERS FOR THE NOES— |
| Ellis, Thos. Ed. (Merionethsh) | Maden, John Henry | Mr. James Lowther and Sir Wilfrid Lawson. |
| Esmonde, Sir Thomas | Mellor, Rt. Hn. J. W. (Yorks.) | |
| Evans, Sir Frncs. H. (S'hmptn) | Milbank, Powlett Chas. John |
§ Resolved,—That if it shall appear that any person hath been elected or returned a Member of this House, or endeavoured so to be, by bribery, or any other corrupt practices, this House will proceed with the utmost severity against, all such persons as shall have been wilfully concerned in such bribery or other corrupt practices.